Religion is Bullshit Blog: To Agnostics

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my favorite commy once asked some friends of mine in class what they were. he and i were atheists, they were all agonostics.

we call it "diet atheist"

XD

Shaggy, 24.03.2006, 12:53am #

That is all true, but after bringing this up with my friends, I think some agnostics aknowledge religion's benefits, (the virtues, whatever) but don't agree with other parts of religion. Either way, I'm happy to be an atheist. BTW shaggy, you're lucky. I don't know anyone who is an atheist. poor me.

rickj4mes, 24.03.2006, 5:54am #

I am an atheist, but I still think we can't say religion is 100% 'bad'.

See, our value system by which we judge things is 'programmed' into us as children. It's passed on from generation to generation, from our parents and society. If you are born in US or Europe, with Christian ancestors, your value system is Christian-based. Therefore, you are using your Christian-based vlaues to judge that religion is 'bullshit'.

That's a bit of a paradox, isn't it?

Society and civilisation are founded in religion. If it weren't for religion, we probably wouldn't have developed the technology to allow us to have this conversation.

Culture, values, morality and religion are not separate things. They are inextricably intertwined. Over the thousands of years of our history, religion has helped our culture develop.

Christianity, specifically, was one of the first organisations to deliver mass education - which lead to scientific knowledge.

All of us (unless you had a different faith-based upbringing) are Christian-based in our consciousness. Even Marx, who came up with an idea which spawned state anti-religion, was brought up in a Christian-based society and 'programmed' with Christian-based values.

SimonH, 24.03.2006, 9:39am #

"you are using your Christian-based vlaues to judge that religion is 'bullshit'."

Ahh, we can only work with what we are given.

"Society and civilisation are founded in religion. If it weren't for religion, we probably wouldn't have developed the technology to allow us to have this conversation."

I don't see how you can justify this since it is historically accurate to say that Christianity has been the enemy of science.

"religion has helped our culture develop."

By keeping culture in the dark for a few thousand years by condemning any translation into native tongues so that people can decide for themselves? Is Christian morality and values better than mine? How could you know that? Were Christians the first to propose their type of morality? No, look into the works of Halil the Elder and you will find that Jesus' idead were not knew.

"Christianity, specifically, was one of the first organisations to deliver mass education - which lead to scientific knowledge."

Scientific knowledge? By burning scientists as heretics? By locking up Gallileo in his home for the rest of his life for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun? By branding alchemy (chemistry) as witchcraft? Would you call creationism, science? What type of science are Christians trying to promote now? If we had let Christians have their way, we wouldn't have science but instead have goofball views of the universe and any kind of science that contradicted the Bible's view of a flat earth with four corners where the moon gives off light and the earth is the center of the universe and the stars are not like our sun but angels suspended in the heaven...blah I could go on and on but I have to get ready for a trip.

JGJ, 24.03.2006, 1:35pm #

NONSENSE!!!
GOD is the only truth there is. The bible is the rock solid word of almight God, that has stood the test of time again and again.
Science is shaky at best, always changing it's mind of issues. The Bible is eternal, and the only truth there is.

RHF, 25.03.2006, 12:21am #

RHF, the fact that science changes it's mind all the time is a good thing. It shows that sciences is open minded and willing to correct itself when it is found to be wrong. Xians on the other hand are sticking to a 2000 year old piece of crap book and refusing to make any comprises!

Who would you rather believe?

Maxwell, 25.03.2006, 1:06am #

The unshakeable word of god? All I can say is conference of Hippo...

Pinchbeck, 25.03.2006, 10:55am #

Tried to post this before but did not succeed -

Think you've got it all wrong on agnosticism. Agnosticism is a perfectly rational psotion to take having regard to the state of our knowledge.

Being an atheist or theist means really gambling in a Pascalian sense that at some future point your faith will be borne out by the facts.

Agnostics aren't necessarily nervous atheists. Agnostics can lean towards atheism or theism, or be dead centre between the two. Personally I am an agnostic who leans towards theism as being clearly more rational than atheism, given all we know at present.

field, 25.03.2006, 3:10pm #

Sure Field, I can have it all wrong, it's just my opinion and being an opinion doesn't make it right. It's just the way I feel about it, hell, I'm wrong in a lot of my opinions.

JGJ, 25.03.2006, 3:59pm #

I don\'t have enough faith to be an atheist.

RHF, 25.03.2006, 6:10pm #

Field - once again you are missing the point, and I'm sure we've been through all this before.
"Agnostic" is a meaningless word - you either believe in a deity or you don't (accepting the possibility of some kind of deity is not the same as actively "believing" in one).
More people are atheists than you'd think, they just don't want to fully admit it.

Tim, 25.03.2006, 7:42pm #

Tim, Ben,JGJ understand this:
Just because God hasn't proven himself to you doesn't mean he doesn't exist. God has tolerated atheists like you for the time being. Atheists are like weeds and when harvest time comes, the weeds will be pulled out and burned.
Harvest time is coming soon.
Repent now and save yourselves.

RHF, 25.03.2006, 11:07pm #

Ok can sum1 help me out here. Not ashamed to admit this but i dont know what i am...

I dont believe in any organised religion or any other type of religion for that matter. So i figured i was atheist, Yet atheist is defined as - One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Yet since the last 6 months or so i have been much more open to the possibility of there being some form of creator as mad as it sounds with the argument of who created the creator.

Anyway whats wrong with being an Agnostic? i looked Agnostic up and thats defined as - 1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. 2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

So im agnostic? and why does this article start off by being negative to agnostics?

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also as this is my first post, on a side note. why do people reply to RHF, i think rhf is either a atheist who is showing why christians are dumb or is just hell bent on anoying each of u. Many seem to fall for it.

Whitty, 26.03.2006, 2:31am #

"One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods" is not an accurate definition of an atheist!

I can see I'm going to have to write a post (again) with some definitions in.

But yes, RHF is a troll and people should just ignore him. If he carries on writing complete crap he's going to have his comments deleted.

Tim, 26.03.2006, 10:21am #

What is your definition of God Tim?
You need to define God before you definition of an atheist makes sense.
What happened to freedom of speech you believe in?
I know the truth hurts. You and brother Jeff just can't handle it.

RHF, 26.03.2006, 2:55pm #

I dont see why it needs to be any more accurate then that. Im mearly stating the difference between atheist and agnostic. If im wrong correct me.

Whitty, 26.03.2006, 3:54pm #

RHF - Stop threatening people. YOu sound quite unpleasant and unbalanced.

Tim - That's absurd. I can consider myself agnostic on the question of whether there is a tenth planet. There might be. There might not. We don't know enough about the solar system to say for sure.

It's that simple.

However, I would say that nearly all the crucial evidence is consistent with there being a deity (in the sense of a creator lying outside space and time) of some kind.

field, 26.03.2006, 5:09pm #

field, 26.03.2006, 5:10pm #

Hey Evangelistic Dude,

Although I agree with your comment about religion; that it's bull shit, it sounds like you are making a religion out of atheism. You seem to be divinely convinced of your absolute understanding of god's existence - or lack thereof.

It is interesting that you state that you find it more respectable for a person to be religiosly convinced of something than to admit to not fully understanding or to confess the possibilty of being incorrect. BTW-That is called the opposite of wisdom.

Yes, religion is Bull Shit, but does it mean there is no god ? Religion has a very limited description of what a god could/should/would be - I happen to disagree with all of them.

I'm agnostic. I'm also atheistic.

You appear to be neither. You just seem to be self deluded into thinking you know everything that could be possible.

Where did you learn about agnosticism ? Jr. High school ? From your preacher ? Is logic a foreign language to you ? Or is the logic of language too foreign ?

Let me explain it quickly. Agnostics are ATHEISTIC ! They do not accept the belief in god of another person.

Every person is potentially an atheist to another person. Unless the two people share identical beliefs, they could easily be atheistic toward each other's theism. That also holds true to the condition of agnosticism.

Atheist = lack of theistic belief.

Agnostic = lack of theistic knowledge.

Do you know the difference between belief and knowledge ?

Got it yet ?

Ok, again, I'll do it in simpler terms.

Agnosticism means a person does not know and that it may not be knowable.

Atheisim means a person lacks a belief.

If a person does not know, that also means they lack a belief. If a person lacks a belief, that also means they do not know.

All agnostics are atheistic. All Atheists are AGNOSTIC !

Atheism does not mean that a person knows there is no god - it means a person lacks a BELIEF in a god.

And as far as your misunderstanding of what you want to call the weak agnostic, perhaps, you will be the one to explain this clearly to one and all.

How is it that you personally have looked everywhere and are personally aware of every possibility of what a god could look like ?

And, how it is that you did recognize that a god did not exist when you looked at everything in the universe ?

Perhaps, if you could quit defining god in the narrowest of terms, as do the major religions, you might understand the problem.

How is it that you personally have figured out the method to prove a negative when the rest of humanity has had to admit that it can not be done ? Do you percieve youself as more intelligent than everyone else who has ever lived and tried to do that ?

You seem to be under a delusion; merely because an atheist lacks a belief in something, that really appears as unknowable, that it somehow automatically means that the atheist can make a claim to know there is no god. Unless that atheist is all-knowing, how would that be possible ?

Again, Atheism means a lack of belief in a god - not having a knowledge that there is NO god.

If your ranting diatribe wasn't so full of bull shit, I would have read more to find out where you're coming from, but, I wasted enough time already on your nonsensical cry baby rave. That said;

If you are and atheist, You're giving Atheism a bad name ! Or, your evangelistic version of it is pure BULL SHIT !

Maybe you are just another evangelist preaching your own inspired christian based religion - if so, it too, sounds like Bull Shit.

Preacher dude, Pull your head out, and wipe the bull shit from you own eyes.

Agnostic1, 26.03.2006, 5:30pm #

I am only '??divinely' convinced through my own observations, just as you are. I think you're just reading too much into it by thinking that I am some kind of supreme authority. This isn't a scholarly writing, it is an editorial one. It's purpose is to spark debate so I'm quite happy with your post instead of offended, hope that is not what you were looking to do, even though you seem to be a wee bit rude in places. Forgivable though.

What I am saying is that it is my feeling that people should become more informed and thus formulate an opinion either for or against the existance of any diety instead of formulating the opinion that they wish to remain ignorant

Those who believe in a diety but not a religion are spiritualists, they at least have an opinion instead of just claiming there is no way to know for sure. All religions require faith and beliefs, for or against, the existence of a god require faith. Either have the faith or don't, so it is my opinion that those who refuse to form an opinion are too scared to have faith either way. It has very little to do with what one believes ??the power of a god should or should not have.

I fail to see how anyone could possibly be both agnostic and atheist. It still leaves a '??maybe' in atheist and a '??denial' in agnostic. Atheists don't say ??I don't believe in gods, but I will never know for sure. Athiest deny the existence of any god.

Atheist =against/no/not theism. Theism is the belief in god/gods.
Agnosticism = The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.
If an athiest believes agnostically about god/gods then he is saying, ??I don't believe in a god I can't prove. If I could prove a god exists, I would believe.
An agnostic who believes athiestically about god/gods says, ??It is impossible for me to know for sure if god/gods exists so I deny them all together. Which is the definition of atheism anyway regardless of the possiblity or impossiblity. So why the label of agnostic in the first place? Come on out and say your athiest.
??You appear to be neither. You just seem to be self deluded into thinking you know everything that could be possible.

I don't know everything that could be possible, the only thing that I know for sure is that the more I know, the more I know of how little I know. But when asked what I believe I don't reply with 'agnostic' because TO ME that is just a way of saying that I don't want to admit that I totally deny the existance, I just want to fidget and say there is no way to know for sure. You are more than welcome to your own opinion and I respect it, but it doesn't mean I have to agree that all athiests are agnostic or all agnostics are atheists because the agnostics I have encountered, with the exception of a very few including yourself, use agnosticism to duck a decision on whether they believe or not. I have more respect for a fundy than someone who claims that ignorance in any topic is eternal.
It's funny how you think that I have examined the entire universe and come up with my decision and yet you have not. How can you claim that it is impossible to know god unless you have examined everything yourself unless your definition is different than that of the dictionary itself. Sorry if I wans't using your definition but you can't please everyone.

Oxford Dictionary
Agnostic -? a person who believes it is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

Which is quite different from the definition that you gave.

Agnostic = lack of theistic knowledge
Agnosticism means a person does not know and that it may not be knowable
(Know or knowable what? Belief or existance?)

They do not accept the belief in god of another person
Atheism does not mean that a person knows there is no god - it means a person lacks a BELIEF in a god

Oxford Dictionary
Atheism - the belief that god does not exist.

Now how can you combine these two definitions from Oxford again? It is impossible to know whether or not God exists so their could be a god or not, but it is not possible for a god to exist. Sounds to me like it's a person who cannot make up their mind on what they

It seems your definitions are a bit skewed from the accepted definitions, wouldn't you agree? Sure, you have your opinion of what atheists and agnostics believe and the dictionary and I have ours. I think I'll heed the dictionary.

â??Do you know the difference between belief and knowledge ?'

Are you saying that people should believe in what they don't know or cannot know? Or are you saying that people should know what they believe? Which was the point in my post.

JGJ, 26.03.2006, 6:47pm #

I need some help here, please: I deeply believe that, by definition, all religions are just a failed (altough noble)and flawed attempt to explain the universe, but I cannot be 100% sure that there is/are not god, gods, God, or some superior creating intelligence because I cannot prove it/their non existance. Am I an agnostic or atheist?

Ed, 27.03.2006, 12:39am #

It seems to me that all of what agnostic1 said makes sense. No need for any of the rude comments mind. The problem here is the actual definition of atheist and agnostic, but yet people can still read into different definitions of either 1 no matter what dictionary u look into.

- My understanding is that an atheist has the belief that here is no god(s) and that there cannot be any god(s)

- My understanding of being agnostic was that an individual believes there may or may not be a god, so would not follow any kind of organised religion because all of these religions require the blind faith that they simply exist with no possibility of there not being that individual god. So by believing the possibility of there NOT being a god it would not be possible for me to even try an follow an organised religion, not that i would want to anyway.

Now i would consider myself agnostic as i don't know either way if there is a creator of our universe or if there is a creator of life. I consider all organised religions to be incorrect as non of them go on any form of hard evidence but merely put faith into ancient artefacts and teachings throughout the generations. Understand that when i say there may or may not be a god I'm not saying there may or may not be the Christian god. I'm saying there is NO Christian god, or Allah, or any other god that people pray to. That does NOT mean their CANT be SOME form of god/creator at all.

"But when asked what I believe I don't reply with '??agnostic' because TO ME that is just a way of saying that I don't want to admit that I totally deny the existence, I just want to fidget and say there is no way to know for sure." - From this you seem to be saying that agnostics totally disbelieve in any form of god/creator but wont admit it. This is not true if my own understanding of an agnostic were to be an accurate definition. Im not afraid to admit anything, why would i be afraid? If i totally denied the existence of any kind of god (which I cant because I don't know) then i would say so, but to me there is a POSSIBILITY that we were somehow created due to the scientific argument of intelligent design.

"Agnosticism = The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist" - Now if this is an accurate definition of an agnostic then i don't even know what i am. It may not be possible to find hard undoutable evidence of a creator, it may be. I don't know... how can any1 assume that there will never be any proof whatsoever? However I believe their cant be hard proof of the Christian god or Allah merely on the radical crazy teachings and beliefs that these religions follow - ie heaven and hell, that people should be punished for merely not believing in a god. Now i don't have any evidence that these cant be real but i cant believe in the possibility of them because to me it just sounds totally unbelievable and is clearly nothing more then a device to put fear into the minds of its followers.

"Those who believe in a diety but not a religion are spiritualists, they at least have an opinion instead of just claiming there is no way to know for sure." - But there opinion (*deity) is based on blind faith also, they merely believe. As an agnostic (if that's what I am) my opinion is that there may or may not be a god, how could I take a stance on either. To say your atheist and there is no god would be admitting a faith in no god with no evidence.

Trying to mix agnosticism with atheism may get a bit confusing, they are very close but there must be some obvious way to distinct the 2 apart. I would suggest simply getting to the bottom of what each means, looking in the dictionary isn't necessary going to offer any of us a meaningful answer here.

Is agnosticism the firm belief that we will NEVER know and CAN'T know if there is a god or not? Or is it the POSSIBILITY of there either being a god OR not, countless of being able to prove or disprove it. - In either case I cant understand your negativity towards agnostics.

But to clear up atheism for me, is atheism the belief that there IS NO god? So regardless of they're being no evidence you take faith in they're being no creator and that the universe and all life on earth were created by a natural event or occurrence?

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didnt mean for that to be long.... sorry if i repeated myself at all

Whitty, 27.03.2006, 1:08am #

Ah yes Ed, you are the same as me.

I would have thought thats what an agnostic was but i may be wrong.

Whitty, 27.03.2006, 1:10am #

"My understanding is that an atheist has the belief that here is no god(s) and that there cannot be any god(s"

This is called "explicit" atheism. There is also "implicit" atheism which does not deny the possiblity of god(s) but denies them at the present time. I belong to "implicit" atheism, if someday god is proven to exist, I am open to believing. Agnostics believe this is impossible since there is no way to know for sure, a stance which supports continual ignorance. Agnostic1 thinks that he is agnostic/atheist when he is really an "implicit" or "explicit" atheist. To say that there is no way to know, and deny at the same time yet being open to the possibility is confusing oneself and I would imagine others.

Ed, it depends on whether or not you believe that someday we will know if god exists or not. If you don't believe we will ever know and that it cannot be proven either way, then you are
an agnostic. If you believe that god does not exist but are open to when it is proven, you are an "implicit" atheist. If you are not open to the possibility of gods, you are an "explicit" atheist.

Some may be wondering what the difference is between an "explicit" athiest and an agnostic. It is slight, but it is there.

An "explicit" atheist is not open to the possibility of a god. It is a narrow vision. He could end up standing in front of a god in the afterlife and still deny it.

An agnostic believes it is impossible to know for sure. They neither confirm nor deny existence of god. They believe that ignorance is the only state of knowledge that we can hope to have. This makes them closer to "implicit" atheists than "explicit" atheists. But at least an "implicit" atheist is open to the possiblity of knowing for sure, someday.

Regardless of anyone's opinion, all opinions can vary from person to person. I say, make up your own mind but at least look harder at the issue and don't just shirk it off claiming that there is no way to know.

JGJ, 27.03.2006, 1:26am #

Besides, if we all decided to count to 10 and couldn't agree on the value of #5 we wouldn't get very far. Degrees of atheism and agnosticism is not quite as varied as the degrees of Christianity, but it's close. It's all about what it means to you and if you can find a degree that fits you, that's great, if not, invent one. And I'll say it again...pure agnostics, the subject of my post, should not claim ignorant is the only thing we will ever be.

JGJ, 27.03.2006, 1:41am #

I am glad to see that Whitty is starting to understand what I am trying to say. Look into what you believe and take a stand. Don't just claim ignorance is the only possiblity and go on.

I had to call the subject of my blog post something and "agnostic" was the closest type that fit. Wouldn't you agree?

JGJ, 27.03.2006, 1:46am #

i totally agree with you simonH. religion is not all hell and damnation, etc. some of it has created honest good people who enefit others freely.

though due to the bad sides of religion, we have been held back by meaningless superstition and fear of that which we didn't want to comprehend.

my problem is with the people like fred phelps :P

Shaggy, 27.03.2006, 3:48am #

Much as I hate to mention trolls, I'm starting to worry about the balance of RHF's mind.

Pinchbeck, 27.03.2006, 12:08pm #

Let me settle this rediculous dispute over bullshit created by you involents. Life itself is based off ignorance.The truth is not for the faint of heart. religion had nothing but great intentions creqated by minds that knew not even a basic log rythum or common Physic. The top ten religions of the world are all bsed on a creationism story. you live you die. for what this is worth, it's worth all the world. Be good, Be safe,and have some respect. "I don't need a God to tell me this."

B .Armstrong, 28.03.2006, 12:33am #

i don't think RHF ever had it.

at least ED tried to convince us.

Shaggy, 28.03.2006, 7:09am #

Whitty -

Seems to me you are on the right path and should not be deflected by the dogmatics of atheism or their opponents.

Seems to me that the atheists here are trying that little trick beloved of polticiians counting abstentions as "against".

Agnostics are simply saying that there is not enough evidence to believe in God or to pronounce that there is no God. However, as you seem to grasp of the two positions, the belief that there is no "supernatural" creator of any kind seems the less rational.

You will find though that some "atheists" here do actually accept the possibility of some kind of creative force outside space and time - which seems very clsoe to the God idea as far as a I can see.

In the end we are back to semantics, definitions. I don't care what you call it, but I think the likelihood is we will eventually come to accept that there is , whatever you call it, some creative force external to space and time and that we have some sort of connection to that force.

field, 28.03.2006, 9:21am #

""religion has helped our culture develop."

By keeping culture in the dark for a few thousand years by condemning any translation into native tongues so that people can decide for themselves? Is Christian morality and values better than mine? How could you know that? Were Christians the first to propose their type of morality? No, look into the works of Halil the Elder and you will find that Jesus' idead were not knew."

JGJ, see you're coming at this from a 100% Christian perspective. I said "religion" and you ranted on about Christians. The ideas that came before Christianity were still based in religion or worship or cult/irrational belief - whatever you want to call it.

In Europe, we were dragged out of the dark-ages by education - predominantly provided by Christian organisations.

They were the ones who spread reading, writing and knowledge.

That that knowledge then lead to us discovering gods don't exist (although I'm sure some knew that already) is something of an irony.

I'm sure Christians wouldn't have organised education if they'd suspected it would end up throwing the harsh light of reality over their beliefs.

SimonH, 28.03.2006, 12:50pm #

Nothing wrong with my mind.
I know the truth, and that Jesus is Lord.
Tim, JGJ, Ben and shaggy are unstable.

RHF, 29.03.2006, 12:22am #

Good to see Brother Jeff off the web again.
Agnostics are full of it. Get off the fence, either you believe in God or you don't.
Either P or it's negation.
Field, you don't get to the point. I know you are not an atheist. Come on board son, we have enough room for you.

RHF, 29.03.2006, 2:15am #

hi, this is my first time on this site as it is an accident how i came across it. i am 15 and in class reading this entry, talking about it to my friends about the topic. we got to talking about a higher power and that we all agreed there is such a thing as 'heaven',although i dont like to call it heaven. we so believe in the whole your mind doesnt exist before your born and after you die, but i think your soul does exist.

kate, 29.03.2006, 3:33am #

i dunno RHF...i never went on a ranting and swearing streak like you :P

Shaggy, 29.03.2006, 5:17am #

RHF -

Come on board what? It's not for you to welcome people on board anyway, is it? That's for God.

I think the world would be a better place if all the people who believe in God accepted honestly they haven't got a clue exactly what it is they believe in.

Why don't you get on board my bus - destination Happy Town via Rational City. There's a special discount for people who hold a Brain User's Card.

Kate - the distinction between mind and soul is an interesting one and may be true in the sense that the mind may be the activity we associate with a live functioning brain and the soul may be the part of us which is experiencing everything, and may well be "eternal" in that sense as it stands outside space and time.

field, 29.03.2006, 8:41am #

Field, come on board the "ultimate truth" train. I absolutely know what this is and believe 100%.
Jesus = God, and the bible is the source of all wisdom. It's infallible and without contradiction.
No such thing as an atheist, deep down they know that God is real, but are in state of denial.
I pity these fools.
Shaggy,
get a life, and stop hanging around with gays.

RHF, 30.03.2006, 3:01am #

RHF is oviosly a troll, He dosent stay on topic, he says his beliefs are completely against what this site is about, he insults peoples beliefs.

His aim is to distrupt what the topic is about, even if he is christian and realy believes in god and jesus this is no reason why he should be allowed to voice such views on an anti- religious site.

Would it be acceptable for an atheist to walk into a church and start stating there views on reality and religion? no they would be shunned out the door.

If he cant type anything other then stating the same fact that god is real and the bible is the answer to everything then he shouldnt be allowed to comment at all.

Whitty, 30.03.2006, 3:16am #

What's the matter Whitty? Can't handle the truth? I've commented about agnostics, have you? Your the one who is off topic. Get a life, and cut down your alcohol and drug consumption.

What is your opinion about agnostics.

Check out www.yourgoingtohell.com

RHF, 30.03.2006, 5:05am #

RHF -

If it's so obvious that Jesus=God, then why did none of the Apostles who knew him personally make that claim in the Good Book? I know you can't provide a single unambiguous quote from the Bible to show that Jesus=God. All you will be able to come up with is allegory and mistinterpretation (Son of GOd was a familiar phrase attached to Holy men).

field, 30.03.2006, 9:10am #

Why do you ask Field if you already know the answer?
You think your so smart, but your not. You don't impress me at all.

RHF, 30.03.2006, 12:35pm #

JGJ - I agree with you about agnostics. In my experience they're mostly people who can't be bothered to think about it. I'd much rather discuss my faith with an atheist (like my dad or my best friend) who has thought about it and come up with a different answer than an agnostic who can't be bothered to think about it.

field - "then why did none of the Apostles who knew him personally make that claim in the Good Book?" John 20:28. Thomas - doubting Thomas, no less - calls him "My Lord and My God."

Whitty - I only just found this site, but I assumed it was to promote dialog. If you're right though and I'm not welcome and it's only for atheists to meet and reinforce the views they already hold then apologies, I'll butt out.

I wouldn't define an agnostic as believing that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist. I don't think you can prove it either way, but I still believe in God. You can't prove science either, but I'm quite happy to walk over a bridge.

Tom di Giovanni, 30.03.2006, 2:11pm #

Tom, you're more than welcome to comment on anything. That's why I write :) I like to hear different viewpoints.

JGJ, 30.03.2006, 4:26pm #

Tom -

Well at least you answered my question. I hadn;t heard that quote before and I accept that it is evidence that, if a true record of what said, that at least one disciple did believe he was divine.

But it's still not that impressive. Why no mention in the other three gospels. If he's the only one to recognise this great truth you would think the other gospels might take note.

Also in all the Acts of the Apostles there is no mention of Jesus being divine as I recall.

But perhaps you have another quote to surprise me with.

field, 30.03.2006, 7:30pm #

yeah, i ahng with gays. and lesbians. and bisexuals. and some transgenders. and straights and blacks and whites and jews and mexicans and christians adn pagans, etc. doesn't change much, does it?

i'm straight, but not narrow.

Shaggy, 31.03.2006, 1:04am #

JGJ - thanks :)

field - I should also have mentioned John 1, "the word was with God and the word was God ... The word became flesh and dwelt among us" etc. If that doesn't say Jesus is God then I don't know what it does say. I could go on (and on) but this probably isn't the place.

Tom di Giovanni, 31.03.2006, 9:44am #

Tom -

Well, yes. But, unless you believe the Gospel was written by John teh Apostle, that doesn't quite meet my criteria. I obviously wasn't disputing that people CAME to believe Jesus was divine.

Why don't any of the early letters refer to this most important fact if fact it was? Seems a rather strange omission.

field, 31.03.2006, 1:54pm #

RHF

You said..

Why do you ask Field if you already know the answer?
You think your so smart, but your not. You don't impress me at all.

It just makes me wonder if, as a self-proclaimed christian, you've ever actually read and studied the bible. Seems to be a very important step that many christians have overlooked. When I say read, I don't mean find catchy little sound bytes and sections of scripture to quote or use as ammunition in a conversation. I mean READ, study, and comprehend the whole damn book. If you had, you'd know that the bible is nearly incomprehensible. Just a thought

freedomfromfaith, 02.04.2006, 1:19am #

Self proclaimed christian? Yes, I have studied the bible and know it's the ultimate truth. The gospels are historically accurate and describe an event which actually happened. Jesus resurrected from the dead.

Don't be a sheep and listen to fools like Tim, JGJ, Ben and shaggy. They don't know what they are talking about.

The truth is hard to accept, but the that's the way it happened.

I'm here to preach the word, and not to please people.

RHF-- REVERAND HOLY FIRE, 02.04.2006, 11:41pm #

Ha, RHF you are the biggest hippocrite so-called Christian I have ever met. You preach the gospel but have no clue about what it means. You still havn't responded to your sin against Matthew 7:1-2. I have no fear when it comes to your judgement, since you think you are God. You don't think you are God? Then how come you sit in judgement of us all and say we are going to hell? Your Satan thought he was God, you are sitting right next to him. Welcome to hell, brother.

JGJ, 03.04.2006, 12:36am #

satan= anotehr of gods mistakes in teh bible. why did god create satan? if god is really all knowing and omnipotent, why did he create this being of vast evil that wars against him and all of his "goodness"?

Shaggy, 03.04.2006, 2:09am #

JGJ, you never answered my questions.

Since your an idiot, I'll repeat them to you:

What are you going to do when you find out you're wrong?

What are you going to do when you are tossed into the pit?

What are you going to do when you find out Jesus is lord?

Shaggy, that argument doesn't work.

God can see all outcomes, including the one where you make the right choice.

Come home shaggy, and get on the right side of eternity.

Don't listen to JGJ,he's a false teacher.

RHF, 03.04.2006, 3:12am #

Shaggy, visit my site, www.yourgoingtohell.com.

Hope this knocks some sense into you.

RHF, 03.04.2006, 3:14am #

I don't answer loaded questions that proclaim I am wrong already. What are you going to do when you find out that I am right? See, loaded. Now that I have answered yours, answer mine, sinner. How can you justify judging others?

JGJ, 03.04.2006, 3:42am #

i just visited it RHF.
interesting

you're a parrot.

it's the same bullcrap you rant about. i've seen this all before, courtesy of ED. nothing new.

you fail.

honestly man, at least try to convince us.

and is there a sound switch? trying to listen to music, not 64-bit screeches

Shaggy, 03.04.2006, 4:31am #

oh, and 1 mroe thing i forgot: whta part of my argument doesn't work?

answer the questions at least. i visited your site, answer my questions regarding god's faulty creation.

Shaggy, 03.04.2006, 4:33am #

Shaggy, I'm no parrot.
You seen this all courtery of ED? Who is Edward?
What kind of music? Marilyn Manson, Slayer? Satanic bands you listen to?
JGJ, your pathetic? My arguments are cutting through like razors. You only want to fool people and lead them away from the truth.

RHF, 03.04.2006, 4:48am #

Shaggy, your argument doesn't work, because God can see all possibilities. God gave us all "free will", do you understand what that means? JGJ doesn't.
God can see all possible outcomes based on the choices you make. You are making the wrong choices in your life.

Your brain is foggy from all the dope your smoking.

RHF, 03.04.2006, 4:52am #

I really feel sorry for RHF. He is obviously, very, a teenager who thinks he is a Christian though all he can do is call people names, like a lost teenager and try to degrade others, like a lost teenager. He obviously has never read the bible since he sits in judgement of others and doesn't realize that by his own actions he is condemning himself to his god's hell. I really feel for him. Perhaps he is abused by a preacher father or has no friends since he is immature and hostile. It is people like RHF that makes me most disgusted with the Christian religion especially fundamentalists like RHF. He wouldn't know how to advise anyone spiritually since if he didn't get his way he would act like an 8 year old and throw a temper tantrum. It is obvious he is not capable of adult discussion. I don't care if he ever answers my question regarding Matthew 7:1-2 because it is obvious he doesn't have one, he is guilty of this sin and avoids it. So, I'm just going to ignore this child. Perhaps someday he will grow up and actually read the things he preaches (by being hostile) and realize the errors of his way.

JGJ, 03.04.2006, 6:17am #

JGJ: I can understand where you're coming from here :) I don't really enjoy verbal abuse either.

I would hate for anyone to judge Jesus by the example of people like RHF (or me). But is RHF really judging you, or is he just taking you at your word when you say you don't follow Jesus? (That's not a rhetorical question, sorry if it sounds like one - I'm trying to unpack what you mean by judging).

Generally, if Christianity were about earning our way to heaven by good deeds then we'd all be hypocrites. But it's not. If you ever feel a Christian is being self-righteous (and we do frequently, sorry!), then for their own sake remind them that they too are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, and get them to read Luke 23:40.

RHF: Being all things to all people means being able to listen and reason as well as rant. Leviticus 19:14. Fancy a chat via e-mail?

Field - Philippians 2:5 "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God ..."

You've got a fair point though. There are lots of groups who believe in the Bible and don't believe Jesus was God (e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelpians), so clearly they think it's ambiguous. I can't see how myself though.

Clearly neither I nor a Christadelphian can read passages like these without applying our own trinitarian or unitarian theology to them. You on the other hand would be unlikely to have either bias, so I'd love to know: do you think these passages claim that Jesus was God, or do you think there are other reasonable interpretations?

Tom di Giovanni, 03.04.2006, 10:42am #

Wow, get me, the untouchable Pinchbeck. How come I never get a brimstone laced slagging?
I would like to quote from Scripture, though-
'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'
So,RHF, see you in the firey pit!

And please don't delete him. Every topical forum needs a whipping boy.

Pinchbeck, 03.04.2006, 12:37pm #

Tom,
Is RHF judging me? Ha, that is all he ever does by saying, "You are going to hell." I'm sure you know all of the passages in Luke and Matthew that condemn this sort of behavior (to the "fires of hell") so no need in repeating it. He's just not worth my attention anymore. And to answer his question, If I find myself burning in hell and RHF is right then I'll take my punishment like a man and give god the finger every day. But I don't look for him to answer my question now or ever, he's just a kid.

JGJ, 03.04.2006, 4:01pm #

you failed to answer my question again. getting jsut a wee bit bored here -_-

basically you're avoiding my question and seem to be saying taht god has no pwoer what so ever over his creations. brilliant idea.

and if this god-thing you kiss ass to sees all and ahs done nothinga bout the 11 million people killed by hitler, the couple thousand killed in the spanish inquisition, an condemns africa, well...simply put if this is his will, i am so glad i don't bow down to this women hating, child beating, racist, emotionally controlled ego freak. that's all i'm hearing you claim god to be.

and ED=eternal damnation, and my "satan" music is nightwish, a bit of a wide variety.
and slayer=ew.

praise be to gawd and jeezis kryasst

Shaggy, 04.04.2006, 12:24am #

Amen Shaggy!

JGJ, 04.04.2006, 3:11am #

I\'m not a confused teenager, but a person who knows the word of God.
Don\'t judge God shaggy, you can\'t possibly know enough to judge God.
If the truth hurts,then so be it.

RHF, 04.04.2006, 10:42pm #

and somehow you do? as ben said "Amazing how everyone seems to know what God was thinking. Amazing how closely His will matches their own prejudices"

Shaggy, 04.04.2006, 11:47pm #

Shaggy, JGJ keeps deleting my posts. I can't answer your questions.

RHF, 05.04.2006, 12:13am #

I don't know how God thinks. It's beyond me. However, I do understand what's written in the word.
ED = eternal damnation. Ok, but I'm not sure what your talking about here.

A final note:

JGJ doesn't believe in free speech. Alternate viewpoints of "reality" are not acceptable to him. I will be more than happy to respond to your posts when Tim comes back and takes control of this website. He does believe in free speech.

Until then, I'm signing off.

RHF, 05.04.2006, 12:22am #

You said you would answer my quesion when I answered your's, I answered your's, you havn't answered mine. So all you are doing is disrupting intelligent conversation and have failed to give us anything but flames. Goodbye and good riddence.

JGJ, 05.04.2006, 3:16am #

ED was our favorite fundy a few months ago.

besides, if jgj did delete something, jsut post it to me. i trust everyone here have the balls (no offense ladies) to not do something like deleting others posts unless it's totally unappropriate (like the "you'll be next" thing)

Shaggy, 05.04.2006, 4:22am #

Can I just draw people's attention to the comments policy (see link on top of sidebar) incase anyone thinks that deleting comments from an obvious troll (which has been done a few times) is some kind of attack on free speech!

Tim, 05.04.2006, 10:55am #

Like most agnostics I know, I am agnostic not out of apathy, quite the opposite - I spend a significant part of my free time seeking knowledge in a wide variety of subjects including religion and spirituality. I find that, "there are no believable gods" sums up my views on all the religions I have so far investigated.

However, to consider myself atheist, I would have to be able to provide some scenario or experiment that would prove that there is no intelligent, creative force at work in the universe. If some atheist could provide such a thing, I would happily call myself atheist, until then I remain agnostic, as it is the only honest descriptor of my beliefs.

I have no 'special knowledge of the facts of creation', therefore I am not gnostic. I have no way to disprove existance of a god, nor can I think of an experiment that could accomplish this, but since I find it more beleivable than not that there is a creative force in the universe I am not atheist. I have no faith in any religion, of course.

I have beliefs but without knowledge or proof, but I can not fathom a way that science will ever be able to disprove anything, so the only acceptable descriptor for me is 'agnostic' or 'agnostic-deist'

2agnostic, 05.04.2006, 10:34pm #

JGJ- It is good to be adding pages to one's book, that it becomes a work in progress, and has a chance to become more than what it is.

2agnostic, 05.04.2006, 10:38pm #

That website (www.yourgoingtohell.com) is a complete joke. It looks more like a joke website and is very hard to even consider as being serious. It portrays the same lack of understanding about religion as RHF shows in his posts.

I've always seen religion as a way of organising a following to keep people in line and make them follow good morals in life. Of course this is often not the case due to the different translations, understandings and meanings that are taken from holy books such as the bible. But its really sad when (and i see this a lot) Christians relish in the idea that they are saved and that they have the right to go about telling every1 how to live there lives or else they will suffer the worst torture and suffering imaginable.

Its rather sad to see the comments page being sent off topic and ending up in counter productive bickering simply because RHF can only come up with "GOD is the only truth, The bible is the rock solid word of almight God, Repent now and save yourselves" The topic is about agnostics

"what's the matter Whitty? Can't handle the truth? I've commented about agnostics, have you?"

The only comment you appear to have made is "Agnostics are full of it. Get off the fence, either you believe in God or you don't" This alone is a very silly view. Nobody is to know weather there is a god or not, not even you without your blind faith. To mealy state there may be a possibility of a god is not sitting on the fence.

And yes i have made many comments about agnostics and have been trying to understand exactly what it means to be agnostic. Questions such as - "Is agnosticism the firm belief that we will NEVER know and CAN'T know if there is a god or not? Or is it the POSSIBILITY of there either being a god OR not, countless of being able to prove or disprove it."

JGJ says that agnostics believe it is impossible to know for sure if there is a god or not. If this is true then i can understand the negativity towards agnosticism as i find this a hard stance to take on reality. But field says that "Agnostics are simply saying that there is not enough evidence to believe in God or to pronounce that there is no God"

I would prefer to believe agnostics simply don't know whether god exists or not, claiming that we will never know is taking away the possibility that we will be able to gain knowledge in the future that will give us the answer and this would be impossible to know. I would have thought the top definition on urban dictionary was a good attempt to define it - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=agnostic

So then it would seem that an agnostic is not much different from an implicit atheist.
It seems to me that agnosticism and atheism are both a bit murky in definition and it probably would be wasted on somebody on the streets as they either don't know anyway or they have there own misunderstanding about being atheist/agnostic.

-------------------------------

Just to address Tom Di Giovanni "If you're right though and I'm not welcome and it's only for atheists to meet and reinforce the views they already hold then apologies, I'll butt out."

You must be replying to my claim that "His aim is to disrupt what the topic is about, even if he is christian and really believes in god and jesus this is no reason why he should be allowed to voice such views on an anti- religious site"

By this i meant that RHF's particular views should not be allowed as he does not construct a valid argument nor does he make a point about anything. He can only quote the bible and tell us that we are all wrong simply because the bible says we are. I'm more then happy to hear religious views that are on topic and constructive.

"You can't prove science either" That's debateable. Some scientific discoveries and theories are pretty rock solid, were as other theories are not fully proven, this is mealy the mechanics that science is based on, unlike religion you are allowed to question science and you should always be mindful of scientific discoveries and theories

Whitty, 06.04.2006, 2:48am #

Tom -

I;ve now read Philippians 2.5 and must say am not impressed.

This is a very problematic passage. It makes it clear that Jesus was NOT equal to God and that he was rasied up to the position of Lord to the glory of God. Now in Acts it is clear that the Holy Spirit (Part of God) enters people so I think we have here a similar statement: that Jesus was a special person who so incorporated God within himself that he has been raised to this position of Lord. It doesn't say he was divine - it says the divine nature was his.

Furthermore if this is the best you can do in finding statements in Acts and the Letters I am surprised. Ever since Christianity has taken its final form people have been clear (except for the heretical sects) that Jesus is Divine - part of the Trinity. Now why wasn;t that clear to the early Christians - why wasn't this message spelt out straighforwardly?
Surely these people were closer to the teachings of Christ and of the Apostles so they shoudl have a BETTER understanding of the trinity doctrine than those who came after them.

I think the obvious and rational conclusion is that the earliest Christians did not think of Jesus as being divine although they of course did think of him as being especially holy with supernatural powers.

You are perfectly at liberty to say Jesus was divine but you can't really plead scripture in aid - or rather for every one statement suggesting he was divine there are a hundred which suggest he was simply a holy man with a special mission from God.

field, 06.04.2006, 8:34am #

Whitty - That was what prompted my comment. Thanks for explaining it and fair point.

On science - I don't disagree with science per se; my comment is just on the nature of science. Science comes from observation: you see things happening, try to explain them, and then test your explanation with experiments. That's the nature of scientific proof.

Scientific proof is however different from logical proof (which is the foundation of mathematics and parts of philosophy). Logically, there is no reason to believe that just because things have always happened in a particular way in the past, then they will continue to happen in future. (I believe the philosopher Hume pointed that one out). Hence my comment - I have faith in science enough to trust its predictions, even though they are not logically proven or provable, in other words even though there is no logical reason for me to do so.

By the definition posted above, that would make me a scientific agnostic ;)

field - divine nature is mentioned at the start before the "therefore God exalted him" part, so arguably he had that to start with - but even so, fair enough, you have come up with an alternative explanation.

There are arguments about Jesus being God which are based on the book of Isaiah (written hundreds of years BC) amongst other things, but to what extent the idea was around before Jesus, and to what extent it only became clear to people afterwards, clearly is open to debate.

Given the original topic, can we come up with a definition of what an agnostic is? If it's not someone who believes that the existence of God is not provable (I believe it's not provable logically either way, but I still believe in God), then what is it? Is it perhaps someone who isn't sufficiently convinced one way or the other, either to be an atheist, or to actively worship their particular perception of God(s)? Would someone who believes in a God but wants nothing to do with him/her/it still be an agnostic?

Tom di Giovanni, 07.04.2006, 12:08pm #

Whitty,
we'll see what a joke it is when your roasting in the fires of hell.
You have too much faith in science. Have you ever observed atoms, molecules? Why do you believe in them? Because a bunch of guys in labcoats say so?
I'll stick with the rock solid bible.

RHF- REVERAND HOLY FIRE, 08.04.2006, 12:17am #

we've observed them by particale accelerators. even i know that :P

Shaggy, 08.04.2006, 7:27am #

Have you ever heard of the heisenberg uncertainty principle?
How can science be certain of anything!
There are other dimensions of reality that science doesn\'t know about or can verify.
Shaggy, you are not a lost cause.
Brother Jeff is off the web because he is having second thoughts about atheism.
Get a KJV bible and start reading it.

RHF, 08.04.2006, 5:44pm #

i know of the heisenberg uncertainty pricipal. but that states we we cannot know what an atom is doing/ where it is at the same time. we are observing the atoms as they detonate when they collide with other atoms (that's how i heard it works, but its been long since i have heard mention of it).

besides, atoms have provided a logical reason for things, and we can predict reactions becasue of our knowledge regarding them.

i don't think the nuclear bomb would've been succesful if we didn't know jack shit about atoms, now would it?

and other dimensions? are you talking about string theory? yeah, science may not know about it...yet somehow you are 100% sure that there's adimension that holds spirits. therefore i am also 100% sure, that without any reason or evidence to my name, that there is a dimension where D&D is the real world :P

but nonetheless, who knows about other dimensions? we're still progressing.

Shaggy, 08.04.2006, 6:45pm #

The atom model has been successful with nuclear reactions. Have you seen an atom? Have you been to a particle accelerator? The physicists are just giving you their interpretation of what they observe.
Remember the Terry Schiavo case? 100 years from now, the doctor who said she was irreversibly brain damaged will be laughed at .
That\'s the problem with science, it\'s not certain of anything!
The bible is different. It is the rock solid word of God, never changing and eternally true.
Deep down inside you know the truth Shaggy.
Get your bible and start reading it. Tell me honestly, it is not the word of almighty God.
Don\'t judge God, you don\'t know enough to judge God.

RHF, 08.04.2006, 10:17pm #

The atom model [comment removed ... not only is he an irritating troll, he keeps double clicking the post button!]

RHF, 08.04.2006, 11:08pm #

it's the rock solid word of an invisible man in the sky who is easier to deceive by all accounts than a four year old.

irreversible brain damage...for the time. if i were to cut off say, my hand for whatever reason and then then toss it in a fire then blast it with a shotgun, the damage is pretty irreversible. for the time.

back in the old days, small pox was an incurable disease until someon found vaccination.

see any resemblance, aside from the odd scenario i chose with self mutilation?

you're truely starting to bore me, your statements are repetitive and are easier for me to answer than "where does the sun go at night?"

come on man, try at least.

Shaggy, 09.04.2006, 9:08pm #

I won't throw pearls to swines.
Good question, "where does the sun go at night?" The sun revolves around the earth. I see it everyday, rises in the east and sets in the west.

JGJ, something is wrong with your java script, don't go blaming me for your problems.

I see none of you alleged atheists have answered my three questions.

I'm still waiting....

What are you going to do when you find out your wrong?

RHF, 09.04.2006, 10:22pm #

Here's my answer again RHF, now answer mine.

"If I find myself burning in hell and RHF is right then I'll take my punishment like a man and give god the finger every day and you and I will be roasting together."

JGJ, 09.04.2006, 11:42pm #

your three questions are unfair (for lack of a better word) in the sense that you are assuming we beleive your manical biblical ramblings. a better word would be "if"

if i went to hell: wow. this is pretty boring. kinda repetitive. oh hello, normally i'd be concerned about my guts being torn out, but you've been doing that for the past thousand years, and i don't need em anymore, being dead and all.

if i am tossed into pit: so much for a loving god. i was right, he's an asshat who deserves a punishment like Hitler would have gotten. then again, that's not really fair to Hitler, Hitler killed way less people and kept his promises, even if they went stale.

if jeezis kryasst is the lowered: good for you. shame your death didn't do much except reset the clock. you fail.

there, i basically answered your questions.

and i was asked this early this week: what would you do then, mr. atheist, if god came down and talked to you?

my response: *kicks gawd in balls* 73h fu(kz0rz w3re u 7h1nk1n n00b?! (the fuck were you thinking ass puppet?-for you non-1337 people out there. ugh, but that's what you get when you play half life as late as i did :P)

Shaggy, 10.04.2006, 1:50am #

RHF - "Get a KJV bible and start reading it". Why a KJV? Why not a contemporary transation which people might understand? Are you one of those wierdos who believes the KJV alone is the Word of God? In my experience those people like the KJV because they can't understand it and therefore find it easier to misinterpret to their own ends.

Personally if Shaggy says he doesn't believe in God then I believe him. Plenty of people genuinely don't.

Did you take the title "Reverand" yourself, or was it given to you? Do you know what it means? Is the mis-spelling deliberate?

Do you really think God wants you to insult and annoy people? Is this how your church tells you to treat people who aren't Christians?

Shaggy - "if jeezis kryasst is the lowered: good for you. shame your death didn't do much except reset the clock. you fail." Would you care to unpack this statement? I don't understand it. "kicks gawd in balls". Why not go the whole way and nail him to a tree? That's what you get for making an effort, I suppose.

JGJ - great answer. People sometimes ask me why God would send people to Hell, and I say that in a way he doesn't, it's their own choice - whether made through ignorance (which is the fault of people like me and RHF) or knowledge. Can I quote your answer to them? While I have made a different choice myself, I admire your attitude.

Tom di Giovanni, 10.04.2006, 1:11pm #

Tom -

To my way of thinking an agnostic is someone who isn't convinced there yet exists a proof for either atheism or theism,and does not feel strongly committed to either position but is prepared to accept that proof one way or the other may come to light in the future.

Ben's definition of atheism would simply include all agnostics because they don't have an active belief in God.

Yes, I'm not sure what you call a person who wants nothing to do with a God even if such a God existed. Anatheist? (A without-Godder?)

That seems a reasonable position to take actually. If God has created this world, then I think the creatures of this world do have free will to decide on their relaitonship with God. Personally, I feel acknowledgemnet of God is sufficient. To go beyond that into worship and an attempt to fuse, at least permanently, one's consciousness with that of God seems to me to be mistaken. Better to endeavour to conduct one's life in a way which is to the Glory of God.

For me that means we should develop a creative and active approach to life. Passivity is a kind of sin under that scheme of things!

field, 10.04.2006, 1:52pm #

I admit that there are almost as many definitions of Atheist and Agnostic as there are Atheists and Agnostics. It's just like Christianity where the definition varies from person to person. That's the problem with Philosophy, each belief is subject to one's own interpretation. Sure, you end up with groups of people who believe the same way in Theism and forms of anti-theism, but there are so many nuances in each that you can still end up with disagreements.

There isn't a single religion that doesn't have factions within it, neither is there a single philosophy where someone disagrees. My post was originally for, what I would call, "Closed-Agnostics" who believe we will never know because there is no way of knowing.

Personally, I'm closed until a god shows himself. It doesn't matter if it is the Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Naana, that shows himself. When I experience it, I'll believe it.

The thing that disgusts me the most about all religions is the human element of them. People like RHF are a dime-a-dozen. They don't practice what they preach because they only know how to hate and be hatefull. Their god is a hateful one, it is the god of the Old Testament. I can't even say RHF doesn't practice what he preaches because he doesn't preach love only judgement which makes me think he doesn't believe in a god, but just likes to say he does. He'll never answer my question and I don't really care if he does or not. His pride alone is sin enough.

Tom, you can quote me all you want. And if anyone would like to see a subject posted, I'll do my best to address it and get a conversation started. We, Ben, Tim, and I are not authorities on religion, but we do have our opinions.

Someday I plan on posting something about the Christian concept of Heaven but first I think I'll rant on Islam, maybe Ben will make me some cartoons of Muhammed.

JGJ, 10.04.2006, 3:07pm #

I think that this is an accurate definition of atheism:
http://religionisbullshit.net/atheism.php
(note I haven't done the "next section").

Yes Field, atheism would simply include all agnostics because they don't have an active belief in God. We are all atheists by default - when we are born (before being taught about such things) and, in the case of theists, in relation to other deities.

The idea that we "can't know for sure" whether there is a god or not is just silly. I can't know for sure that Father Christmas isn't real, but I don't consider myself to be a "agnostic" on the subject.

Tim, 11.04.2006, 12:21am #

Tom, the KJV is the best translation of the bible. They have tried to take hell out of the other bibles, but this is based on faulty scholarship. I not here to please people, but to preach the truth.
Hell is not a joke and there are going to be people crying on judgement day when Jesus sentences them to hell, eternal separation from him.
If this is too much for you too handle, then too bad for you.
Tim, Ben, and JGJ are not authorities on religion or atheism. They think by insulting religious people that it makes them look smarter. How sad and pathetic.
To agnostics: your punishment will be the same as the atheists, because you are atheists.

RHF, 11.04.2006, 12:48am #

Tim, JGJ, Shaggy, and Ben:
Keep this in mind:

Rev 20:15 Jesus says: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

Think long and hard on this one.

I hope you come to your senses and make the right choice.

RHF, 11.04.2006, 12:56am #

then jesus's sacrifice was a waste of time, and merely set the clock back. that's basically what i meant Giavonni was his death in this poorly thought out fairy tale did nothing but stem off the wrath of a hateful demigod

Shaggy, 11.04.2006, 1:48am #

See? RHF still hasn't answered my question because he knows he is wrong. And where have I insulted anyone but you, RHF?

JGJ, 11.04.2006, 2:52am #

JGJ, I'm not wrong. What does Rev 20:15 mean?
I've got Shaggy's attention. He can still be saved.
JGJ, what exactly do you want to know? You deleted my post last night where I asked you this question. Don't make false accusations about me being afraid to answer your question(s) when you delete my posts.
On another note:
The donnas are a good band. Watching them now on music.aol.com.
Like the video, "Fall behind me".

RHF, 11.04.2006, 5:16am #

At the beginning when you said there are two types of agnostics... I'm agnostic; as defined, belief in a supreme being, but "God" cannot be proven. I completely agree that most religions are total bull (i.e. christianity) as they strongly reflect politics (also bullshit). Just take into account that not all religions are based off the bible and even a buddhist can be agnostic as they do not deny the existence of supernatural beings (i.e. Divas)

Tracy, 11.04.2006, 5:24am #

The Bible: Fact or Fiction?

Check out this video at:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3593866248238036452&q=a+hepful+hand

Tracy, 11.04.2006, 5:45am #

RHF,
For about the 8th time, how can you call yourself a Christian when you are BLATENTLY violating scripture, namely Matthew 7:1-2. What is your interpretation of it since all you can say is "Your going to hell?" While we are at it, I'll mention a few more...

Matthew 5:22
Luke 6:37
Luke 19:22
John 5:22
John 12:48

All of which you have violated numerous time at our blog and on your website. That is why I say you are going to roast in hell with me, because not only have you judged me, and others, but you judge yourself. Pride is what you feel when you tell other people about your faith isn't it? Pride is what you feel when you judge others, when you preach, when you pray aloud for others to hear, "leading prayers", and give your testimony. Well,
Mr 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mr 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

I'm not deleting any of your posts, if Ben or Tim is then it is because I asked them to when you say the same thing over and over and over.

JGJ, 11.04.2006, 5:54am #

You only have my attention because you're like a video game. Fun to manipulate but gets boring after awhile

But I must say, you're pretty pathetic :D

Shaggy, 11.04.2006, 6:27am #

interesting song by the way RHF, catchy. and i can guess why you decided to mention this one :P

Shaggy, 11.04.2006, 6:33am #

RHF: While I'm at it 1 Peter 3:9 since you like to call people names like a 7 year old.

JGJ, 11.04.2006, 6:48am #

Either you're blind to religion, or you can clearly see the bullshit it teaches. Awesome post.

Josh, 11.04.2006, 3:31pm #

Field - yes, if there is a God, then acknowledging him and getting on with your own life is a reasonable position, but

surely not the only reasonable position? I'd be interested to know what you mean by "to go beyond that into worship"

and " conduct one's life in a way which is to the Glory of God". I wouldn't say I was trying to fuse my consciousness

with God's (although that might be semantics). I figure the best way to relate to God is to live how he would like me

to live - that is a big part of how I understand worship.

JGJ - "Personally, I'm closed until a god shows himself ... When I experience it, I'll believe it." Somehow this

reminds me of Luke 16:30-31: "'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will

repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone

rises from the dead.'", and Matthew 12: 38-40: "Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him,

"Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you." He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a

miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three

nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth..."

If God did show himself, 2000 years ago, and did prove something by rising from the dead, and if it were historically

verifiable, there would still be plenty of people who felt it wasn't proof enough. I'm not for a minute claiming you'll

find that a convincing argument, it's just amusing to me that (from my perspective) you said it, and 2000-odd years

before he did it.

RHF - don't know where you get that from. Have you read any other translations? Every one I've ever read mentions hell

just as much as the KJV, although in places it's called Hades, Sheol, the pit, etc., depending on what's in the original

Greek or Hebrew. "I not here to please people, but to preach the truth." If you interpret that as God calling you to

annoy people then you're missing the point of the great commission. Paul tried to be "all things to all people so that

by all possible means we might win some" because he knew he wouldn't do a great job of making disciples if all he did

was insult people. If you really want to save people from the fires of hell, you're not going the right way about it.

Shaggy - I can't agree with your conclusion nor can I understand it - sorry, perhaps you could spell out the logic for

me. I think Jesus' death made a complete difference to my life because it has allowed me to speak to God and ultimately to spend eternity with him (whatever that looks like). Given that I believe that was the whole point of his death, I hardly see how that could be called a failure.

Tracey - In so much as organized Christianity reflects Politics, I agree it is total bull. I do believe the church in most of its forms has been infiltrated and subverted by the influence of politics, and I'm sure to some extent I show the effects of that too. However I don't think that changes who Jesus was or what he did, nor does it render the faith completely untrue or pointless. I'm a Christian but the same argument could probably apply to any faith. Don't judge the faith by its followers; if you must, judge it by it's origins (Jesus and the Bible; Mohammed and the Quran; etc).

If you look for proof, you end up in a black hole of doubt. If you define faith as belief without proof, then even an atheist needs faith, as you can no more prove the absense of God than I can prove his existence. Is that an unreasonable definition of faith?

Tom di Giovanni, 11.04.2006, 3:57pm #

Apologies for my rubbish formatting, notepad text wrap :(

Tom di Giovanni, 11.04.2006, 3:59pm #

it's ok. i can see how that confused a lot of people :|

Shaggy, 11.04.2006, 11:29pm #

hello everyone, i'm a highschool student who is an atheist. many complain that i like to start religious arguments. this is not true because i'm always the one who gets questioned. i respect religious people, but i'm sick of being accused of being a trouble making atheist. what should i do, everyone?

p.s. rhf is a complete dumbass.

edm, 12.04.2006, 1:05am #

hello again everyone, i'm just wondering, is it realy fair to lay "the smack down" on certain peacful religions like buddhism? i understand if you want to talk bad about christianity or hinduism, but i believe that no one has the right to criticize religions like buddhism.(mainly buddhism though, because most other religions are evil)

edm, 12.04.2006, 1:18am #

one last post and i'm done... can anyone truly tell me why someone would believe in something as crackpot as scientology. what is with the alien thing? are humans realy that stupid? i suppose so... (sigh god damn humanity)

p.s. whoever you are rhf, i would like to know how far you are in life. im sure that your extreme stupidity dictates your a busboy or something like that. i know this sounds uncool but bring me a coffee bitch

edm, 12.04.2006, 1:24am #

edm,
Who's the Scientologist?
I don't consider Buddhism a religion, they have my respect way to much. And, by the way, when I first went to college in 1988 while I was in the military my major was History with a minor in Religious Studies. I went to a Methodist College but had to pay more since I was a Baptist.

Tom,
That's the great thing about the Bible, it has an excuse to not show proof for everything that could possibly show proof. Same way with Christians, they have a cliche' for every contingency. And as far as Jonah goes, can I claim parable? I'm not going to compare a real life situation with a Dr. Suess story and show it as evidence because Dr. Suess said it happened.

Josh,
I see bullshit everywhere I turn in Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism.

RHF,
I would hardly count Revelations as proof of Hell, it barely made it into the Bible to begin with and was written much later than any other book of the Bible, hence its later-day view of Hell is already corrupted by the power hungry church.

JGJ, 12.04.2006, 5:10am #

Tom -

Well I would refer to the parent-child analogy much used in the Bible.

Of course, we see that while a parent will know more than a child, they don't know everything and whilst they may wish the best for their child, a child needs to a certain extent to develop independently of the parent.

It is clear that as imperfect, relative beings in this creation we cannot have absolute knowledge or an absolute existence. I suppose I am saying we should revel in our relativity, understanding always where it has come from and what it's relation to the absolute is (one of dependence, ultimately).

That's not a v. poetic way of putting it. That's more a summation of my philosophical outlook. But perhaps you see what I am saying.

field, 12.04.2006, 7:04pm #

reminds me of the south park where it revealed the "truth" about scientology. amde me laugh :D

and i

Shaggy, 13.04.2006, 1:07am #

Hey edm, try to improve your grammar. Where do you work? At Dunkin donuts making $5 an hour? Go get your own coffee your sexist, hell bound piece of garbage.
Your going to get tossed into the pit if you don't change your ways.

JGJ, Revelation absolutely proves people will burn in hell.
Deal with it!

You are accountable for your actions. On judgment day, you will be giving your account to Jesus.

RHF, 13.04.2006, 1:08am #

hmm...my post seems to have been cut off...

what i was going to say before whatever happened is that i don't think Buddhism as a religion, but they are among the most awesome people i know. Buddhism for that matter never caused a major war

Shaggy, 13.04.2006, 1:09am #

tsk tsk RHF, love thy neighbor you hypocrite. you're only proving edm's point with talk like that.

Shaggy, 13.04.2006, 1:12am #

Edm is a sexist, hell bound loser. How dare call me a bitch and to bring him a coffee?
Buddhists are all going to hell. You will be with them Shaggy. Perhaps you can teach them to smoke pot.

RHF, 13.04.2006, 1:19am #

Edm is a sexist, hell bound loser. How dare call me a bitch and to bring him a coffee?
Buddhists are all going to hell. You will be with them Shaggy. Perhaps you can teach them to smoke pot.

RHF, 13.04.2006, 1:20am #

drug=ew. I hate drugs after having seen what they did to my relative. it's an expensive ticket to a grave.

besides, that video on brother Jeffs site with the holey spirit made me renew my vows :P

and i still think it's funny...buddhists are going to hell. why? did they not kill enough women and children? didn't raise enough money for an imaginary demigod?

i high-five Buddhism.

and RHF, you seem to be double posting...one click is enough. really. and what makes you think i do drugs? one of your hallucinations?

Shaggy, 13.04.2006, 1:25am #

Religion has done so much more harm than good. Christians are like dont kill people oh no that horrible. And they go out and fucking shoot you in the face if you dont believe in jesus.So what i say is fuck christianity and all that other religious bullshit. why cant we accept that were gonna die and were just gonna be gone in eternal darkness like before we were born. so live ur life how ever the fuck u want dont waste ur time worshiping some crackhead named jesus, who supposedly walked on water. He probly got all his disciples high and was like hey watch this and layed down a blue mat and was like fuck yeah im walkin on water.So dont even waste ur time trying to convert me cuz everything you believe is bullshit im athiest and i say it proudly you stupid christian bitches

Jason, 13.04.2006, 3:03am #

all you guys do is scare people into believing your way by telling us were going to hell. It doesnt work to well considering that if were athiest we dont even believe in hell in the first place. Christians disgust me the stupid close minded selfish dick sucking pansy's there the biggest fucking hypocrites ever.

Jason, 13.04.2006, 3:07am #

RHF you need to lay off the cock sucking talking about oh god wait till judgement day and ur gonna talk to jesus and give ur account. well guess what??? Jesus can suck my big fat cock.

Jason, 13.04.2006, 3:10am #

ah im so angry right now i just wish you christians would get smart

Jason, 13.04.2006, 3:11am #

2SA 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census.
1CH 21:1 Satan inspired the census.
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)
GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.
GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.
GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.
GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.
GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind.
NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind.
GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.
GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark.
GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?).
GE 11:7-9 God sows discord.
PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.
GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.
GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.
GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.
GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.
GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.
GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings.
JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing.
GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.
GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.
GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
GA 6:15 It is of no consequence.
GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.
GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.
GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."
GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.
GE 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine."
DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine.
PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart.
JE 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine."
JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine.
RO 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine.
GE 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel.
GE 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob.
GE 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz.
GE 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz.
1CH 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek.
GE 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin.
RE 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.)
GE 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite.
AC 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem, bought from the sons of Hamor.
EX 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses.
NU 10:29, JG 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses.
EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies.
EX 20:15, 17, LE 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbor.
EX 4:11 God decides who will be dumb, deaf, blind, etc.
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.
EX 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians.
EX 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils.
EX 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed.
EX 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback.
EX 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and "pass over" them.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God.
EX 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as more than 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of about 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt.
1KI 20:15 All the Israelites, including children, number only 7000 at a later time.
EX 15:3, 17:16, NU 25:4, 32:14, IS 42:13 God is a man of war--he is fierce and angry.
RO 15:33, 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love and peace.
EX 20:1-17 God gave the law directly to Moses (without using an intermediary).
GA 3:19 The law was ordained through angels by a mediator (an intermediary).
EX 20:4 God prohibits the making of any graven images whatsoever.
EX 25:18 God enjoins the making of two graven images.
EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins.
DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.
EX 20:8-11, 31:15-17, 35:1-3 No work is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting a fire. The commandment is permanent, and death is required for infractions.
MK 2:27-28 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (after his disciples were criticized for breaking the Sabbath).
RO 14:5, CN 2:14-16 Paul says the Sabbath commandment was temporary, and to decide for yourself regarding its observance.
EX 20:12, DT 5:16, MT 15:4, 19:19, MK 7:10, 10:19, LK 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus.
MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man's foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple.
MT 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father.
EX 20:13, DT 5:17, MK 10:19, LK 18:20, RO 13:9, JA 2:11 God prohibits killing.
GE 34:1-35:5 God condones trickery and killing.
EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18 God orders killing.
2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord slaughters 185,000 men.
(Note: See Atrocities section for many more examples.)
EX 20:14 God prohibits adultery.
HO 1:2 God instructs Hosea to "take a wife of harlotry."
EX 21:23-25, LE 24:20, DT 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc.
MT 5:38-44, LK 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies.
EX 23:7 God prohibits the killing of the innocent.
NU 31:17-18, DT 7:2, JS 6:21-27, 7:19-26, 8:22-25, 10:20, 40, 11:8-15, 20, JG 11:30-39, 21:10-12, 1SA 15:3 God orders or approves the complete extermination of groups of people which include innocent women and/or children.
(Note: See Atrocities section for many other examples of the killing of innocents.)
EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
NU 14:30 God breaks his promise.
EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.
EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
2TH 2:11-12 God deludes people, making them believe what is false, so as to be able to condemn them. (Note: some versions use the word persuade here. The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)
EX 34:6-7, JS 24:19, 1CH 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good.
IS 45:6-7, LA 3:8, AM 3:6 God is responsible for evil.
EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.
LE 3:17 God himself prohibits forever the eating of blood and fat.
MT 15:11, CN 2:20-22 Jesus and Paul say that such rules don't matter--they are only human injunctions.
LE 19:18, MT 22:39 Love your neighbor [as much as] yourself.
1CO 10:24 Put your neighbor ahead of yourself.
LE 21:10 The chief priest is not to rend his clothes.
MT 26:65, MK 14:63 He does so during the trial of Jesus.
LE 25:37, PS 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest.
MT 25:27, LK 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest.
NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.
NU 15:24-28 Sacrifices can, in at least some case, take away sin.
HE 10:11 They never take away sin.
NU 25:9 24,000 died in the plague.
1CO 10:8 23,000 died in the plague.
NU 30:2 God enjoins the making of vows (oaths).
MT 5:33-37 Jesus forbids doing so, saying that they arise from evil (or the Devil).
NU 33:38 Aaron died on Mt. Hor.
DT 10:6 Aaron died in Mosera.
NU 33:41-42 After Aaron's death, the Israelites journeyed from Mt. Hor, to Zalmonah, to Punon, etc.
DT 10:6-7 It was from Mosera, to Gudgodah, to Jotbath.
DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21 God is sometimes angry.
MT 5:22 Anger is a sin.
DT 7:9-10 God destroys his enemies.
MT 5:39-44 Do not resist your enemies. Love them.
DT 18:20-22 A false prophet is one whose words do not come true. Death is required.
EZ 14:9 A prophet who is deceived, is deceived by God himself. Death is still required.
DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
IS 56:4-5 Some castrates will receive special rewards.
DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
MT 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God.
DT 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry.
MK 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.
DT 24:16, 2KI 14:6, 2CH 25:4, EZ 18:20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.
RO 5:12, 19, 1CO 15:22 Death is passed to all men by the sin of Adam.
DT 30:11-20 It is possible to keep the law.
RO 3:20-23 It is not possible to keep the law.
JS 11:20 God shows no mercy to some.
LK 6:36, JA 5:11 God is merciful.
JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.
JS 10:38-40 Joshua himself captured Debir.
JG 1:11-15 It was Othniel, who thereby obtained the hand of Caleb's daughter, Achsah.
1SA 8:2-22 Samuel informs God as to what he has heard from others.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees and hears everything.
1SA 9:15-17 The Lord tells Samuel that Saul has been chosen to lead the Israelites and will save them from the Philistines.
1SA 15:35 The Lord is sorry that he has chosen Saul.
1SA 31:4-7 Saul commits suicide and the Israelites are overrun by the Philistines.
1SA 15:7-8, 20 The Amalekites are utterly destroyed.
1SA 27:8-9 They are utterly destroyed (again?).
1SA 30:1, 17-18 They raid Ziklag and David smites them (again?).
1SA 16:10-11, 17:12 Jesse had seven sons plus David, or eight total.
1CH 2:13-15 He had seven total.
1SA 16:19-23 Saul knew David well before the latter's encounter with Goliath.
1SA 17:55-58 Saul did not know David at the time of his encounter with Goliath and had to ask about David's identity.
1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath with a slingshot.
1SA 17:51 David killed Goliath (again?) with a sword.
1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath.
2SA 21:19 Elhanan killed Goliath. (Note: Some translations insert the words "the brother of" before Elhanan. These are an addition to the earliest manuscripts in an apparent attempt to rectify this inconsistency.)
1SA 21:1-6 Ahimalech was high priest when David ate the bread.
MK 2:26 Abiathar was high priest at the time.
1SA 28:6 Saul inquired of the Lord, but received no answer.
1CH 10:13-14 Saul died for not inquiring of the Lord.
1SA 31:4-6 Saul killed himself by falling on his sword.
2SA 1:2-10 Saul, at his own request, was slain by an Amalekite.
2SA 21:12 Saul was killed by the Philistines on Gilboa.
1CH 10:13-14 Saul was slain by God.
2SA 6:23 Michal was childless.
2SA 21:8 (KJV) She had five sons.
2SA 24:9 The census count was: Israel 800,000 and Judah 500,000.
1CH 21:5 The census count was: Israel 1,100,000 and Judah 470,000.
2SA 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census.
1KI 15:5 David's only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter.
2SA 24:24 David paid 50 shekels of silver for the purchase of a property.
1CH 21:22-25 He paid 600 shekels of gold.
1KI 3:12 God made Solomon the wisest man that ever lived, yet ....
1KI 11:1-13 Solomon loved many foreign women (against God's explicit prohibition) who turned him to other gods (for which he deserved death).
1KI 3:12, 4:29, 10:23-24, 2CH 9:22-23 God made Solomon the wisest king and the wisest man that ever lived. There never has been nor will be another like him.
MT 12:42, LK 11:31 Jesus says: "... now one greater than Solomon is here."
1KI 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
2CH 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
1KI 5:16 Solomon had 3,300 supervisors.
2CH 2:2 He had 3,600 supervisors.
1KI 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high.
2CH 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high.
1KI 7:26 Solomon's "molten sea" held 2000 "baths" (1 bath = about 8 gallons).
2CH 4:5 It held 3000 "baths."
1KI 8:12, 2CH 6:1, PS 18:11 God dwells in thick darkness.
1TI 6:16 God dwells in unapproachable light.
1KI 8:13, AC 7:47 Solomon, whom God made the wisest man ever, built his temple as an abode for God.
AC 7:48-49 God does not dwell in temples built by men.
1KI 9:28 420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
2CH 8:18 450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
1KI 15:14 Asa did not remove the high places.
2CH 14:2-3 He did remove them.
1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign.
2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign.
1KI 16:23 Omri became king in the thirty-first year of Asa's reign and he reigned for a total of twelve years.
1KI 16:28-29 Omri died, and his son Ahab became king in the thirty- eighth year of Asa's reign. (Note: Thirty-one through thirty-eight equals a reign of seven or eight years.)
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, 2TH 2:11 God himself causes a lying spirit.
PR 12:22 God abhors lying lips and delights in honesty.
1KI 22:42-43 Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places.
2CH 17:5-6 He did remove them.
2KI 2:11 Elijah went up to heaven.
JN 3:13 Only the Son of Man (Jesus) has ever ascended to heaven.
2CO 12:2-4 An unnamed man, known to Paul, went up to heaven and came back.
HE 11:5 Enoch was translated to heaven.
2KI 4:32-37 A dead child is raised (well before the time of Jesus).
MT 9:18-25, JN 11:38-44 Two dead persons are raised (by Jesus himself).
AC 26:23 Jesus was the first to rise from the dead.
2KI 8:25-26 Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began his reign.
2CH 22:2 He was 42 when he began his reign.
[Note: Some translations use "twenty-two" here in an attempt to rectify this discrepancy. The Hebrew is clear, however, that 2CH 22:2 is 42. The Hebrew words involved are Strong's H705 and H8147, "forty" and "two," respectively.]
2KI 9:27 Jehu shot Ahaziah near Ibleam. Ahaziah fled to Meggido and died there.
2CH 22:9 Ahaziah was found hiding in Samaria, brought to Jehu, and put to death.
2KI 16:5 The King of Syria and the son of the King of Israel did not conquer Ahaz.
2CH 28:5-6 They did conquer Ahaz.
2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) was eighteen years old when he began to reign.
2CH 36:9 He was eight.
(Note: This discrepancy has been "corrected" in some versions.)
2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) reigned three months.
2CH 36:9 He reigned three months and ten days.
2KI 24:17 Jehoiachin (Jehoaikim) was succeeded by his uncle.
2CH 36:10 He was succeeded by his brother.
1CH 3:11-13 The lineage is: Joram, Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham.
MT 1:8-9 It is: Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, etc.
1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel.
ER 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 There is no injustice or partiality with the Lord.
RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on (and hardens the hearts of) whom he pleases.
ER 2:3-64 (Gives the whole congregation as 42,360 while the actual sum of the numbers is about 30,000.)
JB 2:3-6, 21:7-13, 2TI 3:12 The godly are persecuted and chastised but the wicked grow old, wealthy, and powerful, unchastised by God.
PS 55:23, 92:12-14, PR 10:2-3, 27-31, 12:2, 21 The lives of the wicked are cut short. The righteous flourish and obtain favor from the Lord.
PS 10:1 God cannot be found in time of need. He is "far off."
PS 145:18 God is near to all who call upon him in truth.
PS 22:1-2 God sometimes forsakes his children. He does not answer.
PS 46:1 God is a refuge, a strength, a very present help.
PS 30:5, JE 3:12, MI 7:18 God's anger does not last forever.
JE 17:4, MT 25:46 It does last forever. (He has provided for eternal punishment.)
PS 58:10-11 The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance.
PR 24:16-18 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls or stumbles.
PS 78:69, EC 1:4, 3:14 The earth was established forever.
PS 102:25-26, MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33, HE 1:10-11, 2PE 3:10 The earth will someday perish.
PR 3:13, 4:7, 19:8, JA 1:5 Happy is the man who finds wisdom. Get wisdom.
LK 2:40, 52 Jesus was filled with wisdom and found favor with God.
1CO 1:19-25, 3:18-20 Wisdom is foolishness.
PR 12:2, RO 8:28 A good man obtains favor from the Lord.
2TI 3:12, HE 12:6 The godly will be persecuted.
PR 14:8 The wisdom of a prudent man is to discern his way.
MT 6:25-34 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.
PR 14:15-18 The simple believe everything and acquire folly; the prudent look where they are going and are crowned with knowledge.
MT 18:3, LK 18:17 You must believe as little children do.
1CO 1:20, 27 God has made the wisdom of the world foolish so as to shame the wise.
PR 16:4 God made the wicked for the "day of evil."
MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 God and Jesus hide some things from some people.
JN 6:65 No one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by God.
RO 8:28-30 Some are predestined to be called to God, believe in Jesus, and be justified.
RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on, and hardens the hearts of, whom he pleases.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked so as to be able to condemn them.
1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 [Yet] God wants all to be saved.
PR 8:13, 16:6 It is the fear of God that keeps men from evil.
1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear.
1JN 5:2, 2JN 1:6 Those who love God keep his commandments.
PR 26:4 Do not answer a fool. To do so makes you foolish too.
PR 26:5 Answer a fool. If you don't, he will think himself wise.
PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word of God.
JE 20:7, EZ 14:9, 2TH 2:11-12 God himself deceives people.
(Note: Some versions translate deceive as "persuade." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)
IS 3:13 God stands to judge.
JL 3:12 He sits to judge.
IS 44:24 God created heaven and earth alone.
JN 1:1-3 Jesus took part in creation.
IS 53:9 Usually taken to be a prophecy re: Jesus, mentions burial with others.
MT 27:58-60, MK 15:45-46, LK 23:52-53, JN 19:38-42 Jesus was buried by himself.
JE 12:13 Some sow wheat but reap thorns.
MI 6:15 Some sow but won't reap anything.
MT 25:26, LK 19:22 Some reap without sowing.
2CO 9:6, GA 6:7 A man reaps what he sows.
JE 32:18 God shows love to thousands, but brings punishment for the sins of their fathers to many children.
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.
JE 34:4-5 Zedekiah was to die in peace.
JE 52:10-11 Instead, Zedekaih's sons are slain before his eyes, his eyes are then put out, he is bound in fetters, taken to Babylon and left in prison to die.
EZ 20:25-26 The law was not good. The sacrifice of children was for the purpose of horrifying the people so that they would know that God is Lord.
RO 7:12, 1TI 1:8 The law is good.
EZ 26:15-21 God says that Tyre will be destroyed and will never be found again.
(Nebudchanezzar failed to capture or destroy Tyre. It is still inhabited.)
DN 5:1 (Gives the title of "king" to Belshazzar although Belshazzar was actually the "viceroy.")
DN 5:2 (Says that Nebuchadnezzar was the father of Belshazzar, but actually, Nebonidus was the father of Belshazzar.) (Note: Some versions attempt to correct this error by making the verse say that Nebuchadnezzar was the grandfather of Belshazzar.)
ZE 11:12-13 Mentions "thirty pieces" and could possibly be thought to be connected with the Potter's Field prophesy referred to in Matthew.
MT 27:9 Jeremiah is given as the source of the prophesy regarding the purchase of the Potter's Field. (Note: There is no such prophesy in Jeremiah.)
MT 1:6-7 The lineage of Jesus is traced through David's son, Solomon.
LK 3:23-31 It is traced through David's son, Nathan.
(Note: Some apologists assert that Luke traces the lineage through Mary. That this is untrue is obvious from the context since Luke and Matthew both clearly state that Joseph was Jesus' father.)
MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father.
LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father.
MT 1:17 There were twenty-eight generations from David to Jesus.
LK 3:23-38 There were forty-three.
MT 1:18-21 The Annunciation occurred after Mary had conceived Jesus.
LK 1:26-31 It occurred before conception.
MT 1:20 The angel spoke to Joseph.
LK 1:28 The angel spoke to Mary.
MT 1:20-23, LK 1:26-33 An angel announces to Joseph and/or Mary that the child (Jesus) will be "great," the "son of the Most High," etc., and ....
MT 3:13-17, MK 1:9-11 The baptism of Jesus is accompanied by the most extraordinary happenings, yet ....
MK 3:21 Jesus' own relatives (or friends) attempt to constrain him, thinking that he might be out of his mind, and ....
MK 6:4-6 Jesus says that a prophet is without honor in his own house (which certainly should not have been the case considering the Annunciation and the Baptism).
MT 1:23 He will be called Emmanuel (or Immanuel).
MT 1:25 Instead, he was called Jesus.
MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod's death) in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under. (Note: John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, though under two is somehow spared without fleeing to Egypt.)
LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants.
MT 2:23 "And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He will be called a Nazarene.'" (This prophecy is not found in the OT and while Jesus is often referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth", he is seldom referred to as "Jesus the Nazarene.")
MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism onward. The very purpose of John's baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel.
MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah.
MT 3:12, 13:42 Hell is a furnace of fire (and must therefore be light).
MT 8:12, 22:13, 25:30 Hell is an "outer darkness" (and therefore dark).
MT 3:16, MK 1:10 It was Jesus who saw the Spirit descending.
JN 1:32 It was John who saw the Spirit descending.
MT 3:17 The heavenly voice addressed the crowd: "This is my beloved Son."
MK 1:11, LK 3:22 The voice addressed Jesus: "You are my beloved Son...."
MT 4:1-11, MK 1:12-13 Immediately following his Baptism, Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness resisting temptation by the Devil.
JN 2:1-11 Three days after the Baptism, Jesus was at the wedding in Cana.
MT 4:5-8 The Devil took Jesus to the pinnacle of the temple, then to the mountain top.
LK 4:5-9 First to the mountain top, then to the pinnacle of the temple.
MT 4:18-20, MK 1:16-18 (One story about choosing Peter as a disciple.)
LK 5:2-11 (A different story.)
JN 1:35-42 (Still another story.)
MT 5:1 - 7:29 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the mount.
LK 6:17-49 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the plain. (Note: No such sermons are mentioned in either MK or JN and Paul seems totally unfamiliar with either the sermon on the mount or the sermon on the plain.)
MT 5:16 Good works should be seen.
MT 6:1-4 They should be kept secret.
MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus underscores the permanence of the law.
LE 10:8 - 11:47, DT 14:3-21 The law distinguishes between clean and unclean foods.
MK 7:14-15, MK 7:18-19 Jesus says that there is no such distinction.
1TI 4:1-4 All foods are clean according to Paul.
MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law.
EP 2:13-15, HE 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law.
MT 5:22 Anyone who calls another a fool is liable to Hell.
MT 7:26 Jesus says that anyone who hears his words and does not do them is a fool. (Note: The translation now prevalent, "like a foolish man," in MT 7:26 is a dishonest attempt to alleviate the obvious inconsistency here in that the oldest Greek manuscripts use the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and "like a foolish man" in MT 7:26.)
MT 23:17-19 Jesus twice calls the Pharisees blind fools.
MT 25:2, 3, 8 Jesus likens the maidens who took no oil to fools. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)
1CO 1:23, 3:18, 4:10 Paul uses fool with regard to Christians becoming fools for Christ. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)
MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
EP 4:26 Anger is not necessarily a sin.
MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
MT 11:22-24, LK 10:13-15 Jesus curses the inhabitants of several cities who are not sufficiently impressed with his mighty works.
MT 21:19, MK 11:12-14 Jesus curses a fig tree when it fails to bear fruit out of season.
MK 3:5 Jesus looks around "angrily."
MT 5:32 Divorce, except on the grounds of unchastity, is wrong.
MK 10:11-12 Divorce on any grounds is wrong.
MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Jesus says: "Do not resist evil. Love your enemies."
MT 6:15, 12:34, 16:3, 22:18, 23:13-15, 17, 19, 27, 29, 33, MK 7:6, LK 11:40, 44, 12:56 Jesus repeatedly hurls epithets at his opponents.
MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
LK 19:27 God is likened to one who destroys his enemies.
MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
2JN 1:9-11 Shun anyone who does not hold the proper doctrine.
MT 5:43-44, MT 22:39 Love your enemies. Love your neighbor as yourself.
MT 10:5 Go nowhere among the Gentiles nor enter a Samaritan town.
MT 5:45, 7:21 God resides in heaven.
MK 13:32 The angels reside in heaven
AC 7:55, HE 12:2 Jesus is at the right hand of God, in heaven.
1PE 1:3-4 Believers will inherit eternal life in heaven.
MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33 Heaven will pass away.
MT 6:13 God might lead us into temptation and it is better avoided.
JA 1:2-3 Temptation is joy.
MT 6:13 Jesus' prayer implies that God might lead us into temptation.
JA 1:13 God tempts no one.
MT 6:25-34, LK 12:22-31 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.
1TI 5:8 A man who does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel. (Note: Providing for a family certainly involves taking "thought for tomorrow.")
MT 7:1-2 Do not judge.
MT 7:15-20 Instructions for judging a false prophet.
MT 7:7-8, LK 11:9-10 Ask and it will be given. Seek and you will find.
LK 13:24 Many will try to enter the Kingdom but will be unable.
MT 7:21 Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
AC 2:21, RO 10:13 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
AC 2:39 Those God calls to himself will be saved.
MT 7:21, LK 10:36-37, RO 2:6, 13, JA 2:24 We are justified by works, not by faith.
JN 3:16, RO 3:20-26, EP 2:8-9, GA 2:16 We are justified by faith, not by works.
MT 8:5-12 The centurion himself approaches Jesus to ask to heal his servant.
LK 7:2-10 The centurion sends elders to do the asking.
MT 8:16, LK 4:40 Jesus healed all that were sick.
MK 1:32-34 Jesus healed many (but not all).
MT 8:28-33 Two demoniacs are healed in the Gadarene swine incident.
MK 5:2-16, LK 8:26-36 One demoniac is healed in this incident.
MT 9:18 The ruler's daughter was already dead when Jesus raised her.
LK 8:42 She was dying, but not dead.
MT 10:1-8 Jesus gives his disciples the power to exorcise and heal...
MT 17:14-16 (Yet) the disciples are unable to do so.
MT 10:2, MK 3:16-19 The twelve apostles (disciples) were: Simon (Peter), Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, John his brother, Philip, Bartholemew, Thomas, Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus (Labbaeus), Simon, and Judas Iscariot.
LK 6:13-16 The above except that Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, and Judas the son of James is added (and Judas Iscariot remains).
AC 1:13, 26 Same as MT and MK except that, like LK Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, Judas the son of James is included, and Mathias is chosen by the others to replace Judas Iscariot.
MT 10:2, 5-6 Peter was to be an apostle to the Jews and not go near the Gentiles.
AC 15:7 He was an apostle to the Gentiles.
MT 10:10 Do not take sandals (shoes) or staves.
MK 6:8-9 Take sandals (shoes) and staves.
MT 10:34, LK 12:49-53 Jesus has come to bring a sword, fire, and division--not peace.
JN 16:33 Jesus says: "In me you have peace."
MT 10:22, 24:13, MK 13:13 He that endures to the end will be saved.
MK 16:16 He that believes and is baptized will be saved.
JN 3:5 Only he that is born of water and Spirit will be saved.
AC 16:31 He that believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved.
AC 2:21 He that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
RO 10:9 He who confesses with his mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved.
1JN 4:7 He who loves is born of God (and presumably will be saved.)
MT 10:28, LK 12:4 Jesus says not to fear men. (Fear God only.)
MT 12:15-16, JN 7:1-10, 8:59, 10:39, 11:53-54 Jesus hid, escaped, went secretly, etc.
MT 11:7-15, 17:12-13 Jesus says that John the Baptist was a prophet, and more.
JN 1:21 John himself says that he is not a prophet, nor is he Elijah.
MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 Jesus thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes." He says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain hidden to at least some persons, and specifically so that they will not turn and be forgiven.
MK 4:22 Jesus says that all things should be made known.
MT 11:29 Jesus says that he is gentle (meek) and humble (lowly).
JN 2:15 Jesus makes a whip of cords, drives the money changers from the Temple, overturns their tables, and pours out their coins. (Note: The presence of the money changers in the outer court of the Temple had been authorized by the Temple authorities and was, in fact, a necessity since the Jews would not accept Roman coin for the purchase of sacrifices.)
MT 12:5 Jesus says that the law (OT) states that the priests profane the Sabbath but are blameless. (No such statement is found in the OT.
MT 12:30 Jesus says that those who are not with him are against him.
MK 9:40 Jesus says that those who are not against him are for him.
(Note: This puts those who are indifferent or undecided in the "for him" category in the first instance and in the "against him" category in the second instance.)
MT 12:39, MK 8:12, LK 11:29 Jesus says that he will give no "sign."
JN 3:2, 20:30, AC 2:22 Jesus proceeds to give many such "signs."
MT 13:34, MK 4:34 Jesus addresses the crowds only in parables, so that they would not fully understand. He explains the meaning only to his disciples.
JN 1:1 - 21:25 (Throughout the book of John, unlike the other Gospels, Jesus addresses the crowds in a very straightforward manner. He does not employ parables.)
MT 13:58, MK 6:5 In spite of his faith, Jesus is not able to perform mighty miracles.
MT 17:20, 19:26, MK 9:23, 10:27, LK 17:6, 18:27 Jesus says that anything is possible to him who believes if he has the faith of a grain of mustard seed. All things are possible with God. A mountain can be commanded to move and it will move.
MT 5:37, 15:19, MK 7:22, JN 8:14, 44, 14:6, 18:37 Jesus says that you should answer a plain "yes" or "no," that his purpose is to bear witness to the truth, and that his testimony is true. He equates lying with evil.
JN 7:2-10 Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles, then later goes secretly by himself. (Note: The words "not yet" were added to some versions at JN 7:8 in order to alleviate this problem. The context at JN 7:10 makes the deception clear, however.)
MT 16:6, 11 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
MK 8:15 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod.
MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
MT 16:23 Jesus calls Peter [a] "Satan" and "a hindrance," and accuses him of being on the side of men rather than that of God.
MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
AC 15:1-21 James presides over the first Council of Jerusalem and formulates the decree regarding the accepting of Gentiles which is sent to the other churches. (Note: Tradition has it that James was appointed as the first Bishop or Pope, not Peter.)
MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.
MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.
MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.
MT 20:29-34 Jesus heals two blind men on the way to Jericho.
MK 10:46-52 He heals one blind man.
MT 21:1-17 The sequence was: triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, Bethany.
MK 11:1-19 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple.
LK 19:28-48 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, daily teaching in the temple.
JN 12:1-18 Cleansing of the temple (early in his career), Supper with Lazarus, triumphal entry, no cleansing of the temple following the triumphal entry.
MT 21:2-6, MK 11:2-7, LK 19:30-35 The disciples follow Jesus instructions and bring him the animal (or animals, in the case of MT).
JN 12:14 Jesus finds the animal himself.
MT 21:7 Jesus rides two animals during his triumphal entry.
MK 11:7, LK 19:35, JN 12:14 Only one animal is involved.
MT 21:12-13 The cleansing of the temple occurs at the end of Jesus' career.
JN 2:13-16 It occurs near the beginning of his career.
MT 21:19-20 The fig tree withers immediately after being cursed by Jesus. The disciples notice and are amazed.
MK 11:13-14, 20-21 The disciples first notice that the tree has withered the day following.
MT 23:35 Jesus says that Zacharias (Zechariah) was the son of Barachias (Barachiah).
2CH 24:20 Zacharias was actually the son of Jehoida, the priest.
(Note: The name Barachias, or Barachiah, does not appear in the O.T.)
MT 24:29-33, MK 13:24-29 The coming of the kingdom will be accompanied by signs and miracles.
LK 17:20-21 It will not be accompanied by signs and miracles. It is already within.
MT 25:34 Heaven was prepared before the Ascension of Jesus.
JN 14:2-3 It was prepared after the Ascension of Jesus.
MT 26:6-13, MK 14:3 The anointing of Jesus takes place in Bethany at the house of Simon the leper.
LK 7:36-38 It takes place at the house of a Pharisee in Galilee.
MT 26:7, MK 14:3 The oil is poured on Jesus' head.
LK 7:38, JN 12:3 On his feet.
MT 26:7, MK 14:3, LK 7:37 An unnamed woman does the anointing.
JN 12:3 It is Mary.
MT 28:6-8 The women ran from the tomb "with great joy."
JN 20:1-2 Mary told Peter and the other disciple that the body had been stolen. (Would she feel "great joy" if she thought the body had been stolen?)
MT 26:8 The disciples reproach her.
MK 14:4 "Some" reproach her.
JN 12:4-5 Judas Iscariot reproaches her.
MT 26:14-25, MK 14:10-11, LK 22:3-23 Judas made his bargain with the chief priests before the meal.
JN 13:21-30 After the meal.
MT 26:20-29, MK 14:17-28, JN 13:21-30 Jesus forecasts his betrayal prior to the communion portion of the supper.
LK 22:14-23 After the communion portion.
MT 26:26-29, MK 14:22-25 The order of the communion was: bread, then wine.
LK 22:17-20 It was: wine, then bread.
MT 26:34, LK 22:34, JN 13:38 Peter was to deny Jesus before the cock crowed.
MK 14:30 Before the cock crowed twice.
MK 14:66-72 The cock crows after both the first and second denials.
(Note: These discrepancies have been "translated out" in some Bible versions.)
MT 26:40-45, MK 14:37-41 The disciples fall asleep three times.
LK 22:45 One time.
MT 26:49-50, MK 14:44-46 Jesus is betrayed by Judas with a kiss, then seized.
LK 22:47-48 Jesus anticipates Judas' kiss. No actual kiss is mentioned.
JN 18:2-9 Jesus voluntarily steps forward to identify himself making it completely unnecessary for Judas to point him out. No kiss is mentioned.
MT 26:51, MK 14:47, JN 18:10 The ear of a slave is cut off and left that way.
LK 22:50-51 The severed ear is miraculously healed by Jesus.
MT 26:52 Dispose of swords. All who take the sword will perish by it.
LK 22:36-38 Buy swords.
MT 26:57, MK 14:53, LK 22:54 After his arrest Jesus is first taken to Caiphas, the high priest.
JN 18:13-24 First to Annas, the son-in-law of Caiphas, then to Caiphas.
MT 26:18-20, 57-68, 27:1-2, MK 14:16-18, 53-72, 15:1 Jesus' initial hearing was at night on Passover. In the morning he was taken to Pilate.
LK 22:13-15, 54-66 The initial hearing took place in the morning on Passover.
JN 18:28, 19:14 It took place the day before Passover, on the Day of Preparation.
MT 26:59-66, MK 14:55-64 Jesus was tried by the entire Sanhedrin (the chief priests and the whole council).
LK 22:66-71 There was no trial but merely an inquiry held by the Sanhedrin.
JN 18:13-24 There was no appearance before the Sanhedrin, only the private hearings before Annas and then Caiphas.
MT 26:63, LK 22:70 The high priest asks Jesus if he is the Son of God.
MK 14:61 He asks Jesus if he is the Son of the Blessed.
MT 26:64, LK 22:70 Jesus answers: "You have said so," or words to this effect.
MK 14:62 He answers directly: "I am."
MT 26:69-70 Peter makes his first denial to a maid and "them all."
MK 14:66-68, LK 22:56-57, JN 18:17 It was to one maid only.
MT 26:71-72 Peter's second denial is to still another maid.
MK 14:69-70 (Apparently) to the same maid.
LK 22:58 To a man, not a maid.
JN 18:25 To more than one, "they."
MT 26:73-74, MK 14:70-71 Peter's third denial is to bystanders (two or more).
LK 22:59-60 To "another" (one).
JN 18:26-27 To one of the servants.
MT 26:74 The cock crowed once.
MK 14:72 The cock crowed twice.
MT 27:3-7 The chief priests bought the field.
AC 1:16-19 Judas bought the field.
MT 27:5 Judas threw down the pieces of silver, then departed.
AC 1:18 He used the coins to buy the field.
MT 27:5 Judas hanged himself.
AC 1:18 He fell headlong, burst open, and his bowels gushed out.
MT 27:11, MK 15:2, LK 23:3 When asked if he is King of the Jews, Jesus answers: "You have said so," (or "Thou sayest").
JN 18:33-34 He answers: "Do you say this of your own accord?"
MT 27:11-14 Jesus answers not a single charge at his hearing before Pilate.
JN 18:33-37 Jesus answers all charges at his hearing before Pilate.
MT 27:20 The chief priests and elders are responsible for persuading the people to ask for the release of Barabbas.
MK 15:11 Only the chief priests are responsible.
LK 23:18-23 The people ask, apparently having decided for themselves.
MT 27:28 Jesus is given a scarlet robe (a sign of infamy).
MK 15:17, JN 19:2 A purple robe (a sign of royalty).
MT 27:32, MK 15:21, LK 23:26 Simon of Cyrene carries Jesus' cross.
JN 19:17 Jesus carries his own cross with no help from anyone.
MT 27:37 The inscription on the cross read: "This is Jesus the King of the Jews."
MK 15:26 "The King of the Jews."
LK 23:38 "This is the King of the Jews."
JN 19:19 "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews."
MT 27:44 Both of those who are crucified with Jesus taunt him.
LK 23:39-42 Only one taunts Jesus, and he is rebuked by the other for doing so.
MT 27:46 Jesus asks God, the Father, why he has been forsaken.
JN 10:30 Jesus says that he and the Father are one.
MT 27:46-50, MK 15:34-37 Jesus' last recorded words are: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
LK 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit."
JN 19:30 "It is finished." (Note: Even though both MT and MK represent direct quotes and are translated similarly, the actual Greek words used for God are different. MT uses "Eli" and MK uses "Eloi.")
MT 27:48, LK 23:36, JN 19:29 Jesus was offered vinegar to drink.
MK 15:23 It was wine and myrrh, and he did not drink it.
JN 19:29-30 Whatever it was, he did drink it.
MT 27:54 The centurion says: "Truly this was the son of God."
MK 15:39 He says: "Truly this man was the son of God!"
LK 23:47 He says: "Truly this man was innocent" (or "righteous").
MT 27:55, MK 15:40, LK 23:49 The women looked on from afar.
JN 19:25-26 They were near enough that Jesus could speak to his mother.
MT 27:62-66 A guard was placed at the tomb (the day following the burial).
MK 15:42- 16:8, LK 23:50-56, JN 19:38-42 (No guard is mentioned. This is important since rumor had it that Jesus' body was stolen and the Resurrection feigned.)
MK 16:1-3, LK 24:1 (There could not have been a guard, as far as the women were concerned, since they were planning to enter the tomb with spices. Though the women were aware of the stone, they were obviously unaware of a guard.)
MT 24:9 Even some of the disciples of Jesus will be killed.
JN 8:51 If anyone keeps Jesus' words, he will never see death.
HE 9:27 [All] men die once, then judgement follows.
MT 28:1 The first visitors to the tomb were Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (two).
MK 16:1 Both of the above plus Salome (three).
LK 23:55 - 24:1, 24:10 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and "other women" (at least five).
JN 20:1 Mary Magdalene only (one).
MT 28:1 It was toward dawn when they arrived.
MK 16:2 It was after sunrise.
LK 24:1 It was at early dawn.
JN 20:1 It was still dark.
MT 28:1-2 The stone was still in place when they arrived. It was rolled away later.
MK 16:4, LK 24:2, JN 20:1 The stone had already been rolled (or taken) away.
MT 28:2 An angel arrived during an earthquake, rolled back the stone, then sat on it (outside the tomb).
MK 16:5 No earthquake, only one young man sitting inside the tomb.
LK 24:2-4 No earthquake. Two men suddenly appear standing inside the tomb.
JN 20:12 No earthquake. Two angels are sitting inside the tomb.
MT 28:8 The visitors ran to tell the disciples.
MK 16:8 They said nothing to anyone.
LK 24:9 They told the eleven and all the rest.
JN 20:10-11 The disciples returned home. Mary remained outside, weeping.
MT 28:8-9 Jesus' first Resurrection appearance was fairly near the tomb.
LK 24:13-15 It was in the vicinity of Emmaus (seven miles from Jerusalem).
JN 20:13-14 It was right at the tomb.
MT 28:9 On his first appearance to them, Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and the other Mary hold him by his feet.
JN 20:17 On his first appearance to Mary, Jesus forbids her to touch him since he has not yet ascended to the Father.
JN 20:27 A week later, although he has not yet ascended to the Father, Jesus tells Thomas to touch him.
MT 28:7-10, MT 28:16 Although some doubted, the initial reaction of those that heard the story was one of belief since they followed the revealed instructions.
MK 16:11, LK 24:11 The initial reaction was one of disbelief. All doubted.
MT 28:1-18 The order of Resurrection appearances was: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, then the eleven.
MK 16:9-14 It was Mary Magdalene, then two others, then the eleven.
LK 24:15-36 It was two, then Simon (Peter?), then the eleven.
JN 20:14 - 21:1 It was Mary Magdalene, then the disciples without Thomas, then the disciples with Thomas, then the eleven disciples again.
1CO 15:5-8 It was Cephas (Peter?), then the "twelve" (which twelve, Judas was dead?), then 500+ brethren (although AC 1:15 says there were only about 120), then James, then all the Apostles, then Paul.
MT 28:19 Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize.
1CO 1:17 Although he considers himself a disciple of Jesus, Paul says that he has not been sent to baptize.
MK 1:2 Jesus quotes a statement that allegedly appears in Isaiah. No such statement appears in Isaiah. (Note: IS 40.3 is seen by some as equivalent to MK 1.2; MA 3.1 is a much better fit, however, given that Jesus is allegedly quoting word for word in MK 1:2.)
MK 1:14 Jesus began his ministry after the arrest of John the Baptist.
JN 3:22-24 Before the arrest of John the Baptist.
MK 1:23-24 A demon cries out that Jesus is the Holy One of God.
1JN 4:1-2 Everyone who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. (Note: This would mean that the demon is of God.)
MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.
MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.
MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.
MK 6:52 The people were so unimpressed with "the Feeding of the Multitude" that they did not even understand the event.
JN 6:14-15 They were so impressed that they tried to force Jesus to be their king.
MK 6:53 After the feeding of the 5000, Jesus and the disciples went to Gennesaret.
JN 6:17-25 They went to Capernaum.
MK 15:25 It was the third hour when Jesus was crucified.
JN 19:14-15 It was after the sixth hour since Jesus was still before Pilate and had not yet been sentenced at that time.
MK 16:1-2 The women came to the tomb to anoint the body.
JN 19:39-40 The body had already been anointed and wrapped in linen cloth.
MK 16:5, LK 24:3 The women actually entered the tomb.
JN 20:1-2, 11 They did not.
MK 16:14-19 The Ascension took place (presumably from a room) while the disciples were together seated at a table, probably in or near Jerusalem.
LK 24:50-51 It took place outdoors, after supper, at Bethany (near Jerusalem).
AC 1:9-12 It took place outdoors, after 40+ days, at Mt. Olivet.
MT 28:16-20 No mention is made of an ascension, but if it took place at all, it must have been from a mountain in Galilee since MT ends there.)
LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
LK 1:67 So did Zechariah.
LK 2:25 So did Simeon.
LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).
JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.
LK 8:12 The Devil causes unbelief.
MK 4:11-12 Jesus is responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.
2TH 2:11-12 God is ultimately responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.
LK 14:26 No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters.
1JN 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer.
1JN 4:20 If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar.
LK 18:9-14 Do not boast of your virtue.
RO 11:20, 1PE 5:5 Do not be proud.
RO 15:17, 2CO 1:12, HE 3:6, 2CO 2:14, 5:12, 11:17 Paul boasts of his faith and says that one should be proud of it.
LK 22:3-23 Satan entered Judas before the supper.
JN 13:27 It was during the supper.
LK 23:43 Jesus promises one of those crucified with him that they will be together, that very day, in Paradise.
JN 20:17, AC 1:3 Jesus was not raised until the third day and did not ascend until at least forty days later.
LK 23:55-56 The women followed Joseph to the tomb, saw how the body had been laid, then went to prepare spices with which to anoint the body.
JN 19:39-40 Joseph brought spices with him (75 or a 100 lbs.) and annointed the body (as the women should have noticed).
JN 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one.
JN 14:28 God is greater than Jesus.
JN 1:1 Jesus was God incarnate.
AC 2:22 Jesus was a man approved by God.
JN 3:17, 8:15, 12:47 Jesus does not judge.
JN 5:22, 5:27-30, 9:39, AC 10:42, 2CO 5:10 Jesus does judge.
JN 5:22 God does not judge.
RO 2:2-5, 3:19, 2TH 1:5, 1PE 1:17 God does judge.
JN 5:24 Believers do not come into judgement.
MT 12:36, RO 5:18, 2CO 5:10, HE 9:27, 1PE 1:17, JU 1:14-15, RE 20:12-13 All persons (including believers) come into judgement.
JN 5:31 Jesus says that if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is not true.
JN 8:14 Jesus says that even if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is true.
JN 5:38-47 Men have a choice as to whether or not to receive Jesus.
JN 6:44 No one can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father.
JN 7:38 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (i.e., the OT).
(No such statement is found in the OT.)
JN 10:27-29 None of Jesus' followers will be lost.
1TI 4:1 Some of them will be lost.
JN 12:31 The Devil is the ruler (or "prince") of this world.
1CO 10:26, RE 1:5 Jesus is the ruler of kings--the earth is his.
JN 12:32 Jesus implies that all persons will be saved.
1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 God wants all to be saved.
JN 12:40, AC 2:21, 2:39, RO 9:27, 10:13 Some will not be saved.
RE 14:1-4 Heaven will be inhabited by 144,000 virgin men (only?).
JN 13:36 Peter asks Jesus where he is going.
JN 14:5 Thomas does the same.
JN 16:5 Jesus says that none of them have asked him where he is going.
JN 17:12 Jesus has lost none of his disciples other than Judas.
JN 18:9 Jesus has lost none, period.
JN 17:12 Mentions a "son of perdition" as appearing in scripture (meaning the OT).
(Note: There is no "son of perdition" mentioned in the OT.)
JN 18:37 Jesus came into the world to bear witness to the truth.
RO 1:18-20 The truth has always been evident.
JN 20:9 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (meaning the OT). (No such statement is found in the OT.)
JN 20:22 In his first resurrection appearance before the assembled disciples, Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit.
AC 1:3-5, AC 2:1-4 The Holy Spirit was received much later (on Pentecost.)
JN 21:25 The world probably could not contain the books if all that Jesus did were to be recorded.
AC 1:1 The author of Acts has already written about all that Jesus began to do.
AC 5:19, 12:6-11 The disciples take part in a jailbreak made possible by an angel.
AC 5:40-42 The disciples disobey the Council and continue to teach and preach Jesus.
RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God.
AC 5:29 Obey God, not men.
RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God.
AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion heard the voice but saw no one.
AC 22:9 They saw a light but did not hear a voice.
AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion stood.
AC 26:14 They fell to the ground.
AC 9:19-28 Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Damascus, then Jerusalem where he was introduced to the Apostles by Barnabas, and there spent some time with them (going in and out among them).
GA 1:15-20 He made the trip three years later, then saw only Peter and James.
AC 9:23 The governor attempted to seize Paul.
2CO 11:32 It was the Jews who tried to seize Paul.
AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
RO 9:11-13 God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before their birth.
AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
RO 9:18 God has mercy on whoever he chooses, etc.
AC 16:6 The Holy Spirit forbids preaching in Asia.
AC 19:8-10 Paul preaches in Asia anyway.
AC 20:35 Quotes Jesus as having said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive." (No such statement of Jesus is found elsewhere in the Bible.)
RO 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will perish without the law.
RO 4:15 Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin).
RO 2:13 Doers of the law will be justified.
RO 3:20, GA 3:11 They will not be justified.
RO 2:15 The law is written on the heart. Conscience teaches right from wrong.
1JN 2:27 Anointing by Jesus teaches right from wrong.
RO 4:9 Faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness.
JA 2:21 Abraham was justified by works (which made his faith perfect).
RO 10:11 (An alleged OT quote; no such statement in the OT.)
RO 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything that might cause your brother to stumble or be offended.
CN 2:16 Let no one pass judgement on you in matters of food and drink.
1CO 7:8-9 Widows should not marry (although it is better to marry than burn).
1TI 5:14 Young widows should marry, bear children, rule the household, etc..
1CO 8:4 There is only one God.
2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods).
1CO 10:33 Paul says that he tries to please men (so they might be saved).
GA 1:10 Paul says he would not be a servant of Christ if he tried to please men.
2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.
GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.
GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.
1TH 2:2 God gave Paul the courage to continue his work.
1TH 2:17-18 Satan hindered Paul.
(Note: Who is stronger, Satan or God?)
1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.
TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever.
2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work.
1PE 3:15 Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith.
JA 4:5 (Quotes an alleged scripture [OT] verse not found in the OT.)
RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then ...
REV 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass.
Moved David to anger?
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel.
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah.
God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
Human vs. ghostly impregnation
ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Rabbits do not chew their cud
LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
'Gerah', the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, and also perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated 'chew the cud' in the KJV is more exactly 'bring up the cud'. Rabbits do not bring up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again. The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that. Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and chew on it.

Insects do NOT have four feet
LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
Snails do not melt
PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.
Fowl from waters or ground?
GEN 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
GEN 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Odd genetic engineering
GEN 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.
The shape of the earth
ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Astromical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Earth supported?
JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Heaven supported too
JOB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
The hydrological cycle
ECC 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
JOB 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Storehouses are not part of the cycle
Order of creation
Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."
The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)
How orderly were things created?
#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)
How satisfied with creation was he?
#1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.
#2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)
Moses' personality
Num.12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the fact of the earth."
Num.31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves."
Righteous live?
Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."
Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Years of famine
II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destryed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father.
God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."
"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)
Tempts?
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (Gen 22:1)
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13)
Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)
Ascend to heaven
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
Before the cock crow - Matthew 26:34
Before the cock crow twice - Mark 14:30
How many times did the cock crow?
MAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
MAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
MAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
LUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
LUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
JOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, still thou hast denied me thrice.
JOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.
Who killed Saul
SA1 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
SA1 31:5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.
SA1 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.
SA2 1:15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died.
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
MAT 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
MAT 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
MAT 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
MAT 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
MAT 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
MAT 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
LUK 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
LUK 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
LUK 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
LUK 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Does every man sin?
KI1 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
CH2 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;
PRO 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
JO1 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
JO1 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
JO1 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Do you answer a fool?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
(various trapsing)
How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention?
1 Corinthians 15:5 (12)
Matthew 27:3-5 (minus one from 12)
Acts 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection)
MAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

Judging
1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV)
1 Cor 4:5 "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."
Good deeds
Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)
Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secert. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)
Whom did they see at the tomb?
MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
MAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
zechariah 11:11-13
(nothing in Jeremiah remotely like)
When second coming?
MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
1 thessalonians 4:15-18
Solomon's overseers
550 in I Kings 9:23
250 in II Chron 8:10
The mother of Abijah:
Maachah the daughter of Absalom 2 Chron 9:20
Michaiah the daughter of Uriel 2 Chron 13:2
When did Baasha die?
26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8
36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 in 2 Kings 8:26
42 in 2 Chron 22:2
Who was Josiah's successor?
Jehoahaz - 2 Chron 36:1
Shallum - Jeremiah 22:11
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
scarlet - Matthew 27:28
purple John 19:2
What did they give him to drink?
vinegar - Matthew 27:34
wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23
How long was Jesus in the tomb?
Depends where you look; Matthew 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," and Mark 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again." As far as I can see from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days," but the post-Resurrection narratives have "on the third day."

Jason, 13.04.2006, 3:15am #

eat that up bitches

Jason, 13.04.2006, 3:16am #

shit. i am proud to say, that is probably one of the coolest, if mind numbingly long, posts i have ever seen.

Shaggy, 13.04.2006, 5:48am #

A link would have sufficed.

JGJ, 13.04.2006, 5:51am #

true...but still...that's quite a list.

Shaggy, 13.04.2006, 6:13am #

Jason - since you're quite happy to believe there's no god or afterlife even though you can't prove it, why is it wrong for me to believe without proof (but based partly on experience) that there is a God?

Are you happy to believe in science even though you can't explain all of it and there are plenty of things no-one has yet figured out? Why then shouldn't I continue to believe in the Bible despite your list? Some things in it I can explain, some I can't. But just because I can't understand something and you can't understand it doesn't mean that no explanation exists.

When you say "dont even waste ur time trying to convert me cuz everything you believe is bullshit", in what way are you being more open-minded than RHF or me or anyone else?

And, given all of the above, isn't it a bit rich for you to call Christians hypocrites? I'm not saying you're wrong, but ? how different are you really being from those you despise?

I do agree with you on one thing. There's no point in trying to scare an atheist with talk of hell because obviously they don't believe in it. Take note, RHF - Jesus talks about hell a lot but it's mostly to his disciples, not to unbelievers.

Sounds like you've met some pretty nasty people who call themselves Christians. I'm sorry about that. If they claim to follow Jesus then they ought to know better. I hope I'm not like that, but since I'm human I know that sometimes I'¢m probably as bad if not worse. But what does that prove? Consider this argument: Stalin was an atheist. Stalin was bad. Therefore atheism is bad. Clearly faulty logic. But you use precisely the same argument when you say e.g. Christianity is bad because of the crusades, inquisition, RHF, etc. If you want to find out what Christianity is really about, you have to look at Jesus. And if you really want to get at hypocritical Christians, then get to know the Gospels and the book of Acts, say, and quote bits to them whenever they are doing something they shouldn't. They might even thank you for it.

Tom di Giovanni, 13.04.2006, 9:26am #

Jason -

Witnesses can be truthful and still offer conflicting accounts (this often happens with witnesses of a crime - they see things from a different angle, have different recollections etc even if they are honestly trying to recall what they saw), so your "disproof" of the truth of the Bible relates only to those who assert to is literally true in every particular.

field, 13.04.2006, 1:47pm #

Scarilly, there are plenty of people who do assert the bible to be literally true in every particular.

Tom - I want proof that something exists to belive in it, not lack of proof that it doesn't. As I stated earlier, I can't disprove Father Christmas, or the tooth fairy, or any other gods from legend.

Tim, 13.04.2006, 1:56pm #

Tom di Giovanni, 13.04.2006, 2:20pm #

Tom,

Your proof and evidence comes when you walk across the bridge and it does or does not support your weight. At least the process can be tested. Any test on faith can only be done with faith. There is evidence that matches your's for the resurrection that we know is not true. The earth being flat with four corners, that the moon gives off its own light, and there are several more, so you are right in saying that it is irrational.

Personal belief only requires "proof" when one tries to push their beliefs on people who require it. Especially when those with these beliefs want to control or at least manipulate the freedoms of others who don't agree, which is exactly what your religion does Tom, yesterday and today. That is the true Bullshit of Religion, limiting the freedoms of anyone who disagrees with you by using the very thing that gives you freedom.

Civilization began when people congregated in an area for mutual benefit. It is when you start taking away the benefits of others that civilization breaks down. If it was easy to separate ourselves into societies with like-minded philosophies, language, and religions the world would probably be a more peaceful place. You can see what is happening any time Muslim extremists mix with anyone who disagrees. Or even Shiite and Sunni. You could see the problems in early Christianity when mixed with those who did not believe the way they did. You can see it today in the US which is a melting pot of various peoples. You can still see these problems today.

The Bullshit of Religion is that a lot of people who follow religions don't hold themselves to the same standards they hold others. Some Muslims kill and persecute Bhuddhists, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, and other Muslims for thier beliefs. Some Christians kill and persecute for their beliefs as well. Hindus do it as well. If it wasn't for reincarnation I wouldn't even consider Buddhism a religion. True equality is a pipe dream that will never be realized. If I believed in the Christian god I would have to blame him for all of this chaos, if he is all-knowing then he knew what would happen at the Tower of Babel when he separated everyone. Human life, being alive, means nothing to him, it is not precious to him. It reminds me of the line in Devil's Advocate. "He set the stage in opposition." To him the only thing that matters is the end game. If you die a gruesome, painful death as a 6 year-old child it concerns him not in the slightest. His only concern is being worshipped. Even your god cannot hold himself to the standards put on people. That is not worthy of respect or worship.

Think about this for a second. A scientists creates a bunch of tiny robots. He programs them to sing his praises all day and all night. If some of them fail to sing his praises then they are defective and are thrown into the incinerator. What would you think about that scientist? That he is a narcisist? What possible benefit could there be to having something whose sole purpose is to sing his praises except self-love? The very concept is sickening, especially when humans, like the robots who failed to sing, are supposedly thrown into an incinerator still turned on. Your belief is that your god created us, if that is so then he created us and put us into the closet of ignorance, chaos, and confusion, waiting to see which ones would come out and sing his praises and damn the rest. The only pitfalls in the closet are each other.

JGJ, 13.04.2006, 3:07pm #

People engaged in Hair splitting Arguments about what's Atheist & What's Agnostic, 'Can't see the wood for the trees'.
The issues are really about if one is a Believer (in super natural powers ) & / or one follows the Religion (as against being a Free Thinker).
Insofar as Hinduism (which incidentally is a geographical term, not a religious term) concerned there have been several schools of thought which practised atheism.
Many people having belief in God, are opposed to Organised Religions. There are people who are rationalist when it comes to God, but religion being a cultural issue as are deeply religious . Naturally, most people follow, strictly pretend to practice, the religion they are born into by inheritance. Only a minuscule minority ever adopts religion by own well though over conviction. Most religions (cults included) have organised themselves, hence religion is hardly a personal affair; infact organised religions are more political than any political party.
Communism is strictly a religion that practices atheism.
Being a Free Thinker & a Non Believer, I find that like minded people are unorganised cease to be a force to propagate, even perpetuate the Belief (even Rationalist Ideology is a Belief).
Just compare the number of sites on religion & the whole of literature for Atheism.
Shantanu

Shantanu, 15.04.2006, 10:04pm #

I'm not going to argue the definition of Hinduism, go argue with Webster.

JGJ, 21.04.2006, 10:50am #

Tim - depending on what you mean by "proof" and "believe in", I suspect you believe in plenty of things you can't prove. When you walk over a bridge, for example, you don't first try to prove it's there and it's strong enough to take your weight. (I'm guessing - apologies if you do). You trust your eyes, your memories, etc. You have faith, at least in the sense that I defined it earlier, as belief without proof. You have evidence, of course, but not proof.

And I'm the same. There's plenty of evidence, for example, for the resurrection. I would never argue that counted as proof, but I still believe it. Perhaps that's irrational, but if so, then I'm no more irrational than everyone else.
Tom di Giovanni, 13.04.2006, 2:20pm #

that is without a doubt the stupidest arguement i have ever heard. i am stupider for having read it. njo i dont need proof of a bridge before i cross it, nor do i need proof of a car before i get in or proof that my house exists. i can see them and touch them....proof enough. now god, on the other hand, is something that there is no proof for. jesus cant be proved nor can allah or any of the other gods. i may have evidence but no proof....but its more than you got. please dont post if you are going to be idiotic

shoes, 23.05.2006, 2:25am #

Religion is at best harmless to being moderately useful, that's when it's purely personal. Once organised, Religions become the most Political Bodies.
Time and again History has shown that Religious Organisations have been Anti Progress & Anti People. This is what gave rise to reformists, in course of time, whose followers did exactly what they stood opposed to.
Amongst other things Religious Organisations & Religions per se have displayed is lack of open mind, always persecuting those with an independent mind; this they have done while never standing against injustice by the mighty when it really mattered. Not only the organised religions have covered up the evil within, Criminal organisations & religious organisations have also known to have connived.
Pursuit of knowledge & truth itself is naturally the first victim.

Indian Rationalist, 23.05.2006, 5:58am #

Am I an Atheist or an Agnostic? I have absolutely no idea. What I do know is if you can see,touch,smell or hear it,it is there, if you can't then it's not.I certainly do not believe in any organised religions idea of an all seeing, all powerful version of a God.

derek, 24.05.2006, 8:09pm #

I have to say that I disagree with you. I think it is possible to consider yourself a Christian but still have questions. I believe in God, but I refuse to believe He thinks abortion and gay marriage are evil, or that war was the right thing to do. And I certainly don't believe that He would have wanted us to elect that moron George Bush twice. My views may contradict the Bible, but I think the Bible was the part of Christianity that was made up. I think that God wants us to love and accept each other, and I doubt He would say everyone HAS to practice the modern-day Christian religion. So kudos to you for standing up for what you believe in, but you should think first before you say something closed-minded.

Samantha, 31.05.2006, 6:13pm #

If the Bible was the part that Christianity made up, that leaves nothing for Christianity to believe in, not even Jesus since he is only mentioned in the Bible.

JGJ, 01.06.2006, 1:42am #

Didn't T.H. Huxley, the man described as Darwin's bulldog, define himself as an agnostic, as he felt agnosticism was the only truly scientific position.

fridgemonkey, 03.10.2006, 5:27pm #

Religion being a matter of FAITH, cannot be a matter of reason & logic. One can rationalise a lot but not reason using logic.
If God existed & Prophets were real, why is it that there are so many divergent faiths. Not only various Religions are diverse but in addition they are at conflict.
Who created the Devil, Evil & Hell? If God exists & God created everything, it's only reasonable to say God Created ' Devil, Evil & Hell', something which is in contradiction of what God is about & what God should do!
We can tolerate stupidity but not those who are proud of it.

Indian Rationalist, 03.10.2006, 8:46pm #

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xlpcszhy, 31.05.2010, 11:30am #

The summer night is like a perfection of thought.

cozaar, 02.06.2010, 11:41am #

Nothing is so good for an ignorant man as silence; and if he was sensible of this he would not be ignorant.

vardenafil, 02.06.2010, 3:12pm #

Learn the art of patience. Apply discipline to your thoughts when they become anxious over the outcome of a goal. Impatience breeds anxiety, fear, discouragement and failure. Patience creates confidence, decisiveness, and a rational outlook, which eventually leads to success.

advair diskus persuasiveness placentoma, 02.06.2010, 3:12pm #

Equal opportunity means everyone will have a fair chance at being incompetent.

cymbalta, 02.06.2010, 3:13pm #

How could you be a Great Man if history brought you no Great Events, or brought you to them at the wrong time, too young, too old?

avapro, 03.06.2010, 2:35am #

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